Commuter Rail Contracts

According to Amtrak internal news letter to its employees, the railroad is fighting the decision by the VRE to award the operations and maintenance contract to another operater. Since the VRE equipment was serviced at the Ivy City facility, the questions I have is this:

1) If Amtrak loses the contract, where will the VRE equipment be serviced?
2) What happens to all the Amtrak employees that serviced and operated the equipment?

It will have to be serviced in other locations, and yes, some jobs will be lost by Amtrak, but may transfer to new operator.
Question is at what rate and conditions as it will be new contract with new seniority.

Relevant related topic:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 46&t=66381

Does this mean that the VRE/Amtrak cross-honor program will end?

probably, but it could be VRE will just pay Amtrak for those tickets collected on Amtrak trains.

I think Virginia is making a mistake in this case. Amtrak can do a number on them if they see fit to.
Noel Weaver

DutchRailnut wrote:It will have to be serviced in other locations, and yes, some jobs will be lost by Amtrak, but may transfer to new operator.
Question is at what rate and conditions as it will be new contract with new seniority.

Dutch,

What locations would the equipment be served since the nearest shop is Ivy City and the VRE is a North/South railroad. The trains layover in DC for the return trip back to VA.

Second, since its a new operator, the contract would be for the new operator to service the equipment. Based on your statement the new operator would then contract with
Amtrak to service the equipment. Then what would be the purpose of having the new operator if they have to contract Amtrak for maintenance? If that is the case, then the VRE is going to be paying a lot of money.

When the contract was first awarded, I read in the Washington Post on how 80 employees will be affected and that all will be offered jobs with the new company if they choose. It was mentioned that vacation will be the same and that pay will be comparable to what they were paid under Amtrak. My question is, if thats the case, then why select this new company to operate the trains. Call me biased since Im an Amtrak engineer, but Amtrak has the experience to run railroads, and said railroad in question, and if it wasnt for Amtrak running the VRE since the beginning, then VRE wouldnt be where it is today. VRE will still need to deal with Amtrak to access Union Station and I hope VRE is given a hard time accessing that stop. Again just call me biased. People may not think much on Amtrak at times but they seem to operate railroads pretty well with all things considering and if they are the contracted operator with money being poured in for the operations then Amtrak really shines since they dont have to use much of its own money for those operations. Boston MBTA and Metrolink were all operated by Amtrak, with the MBTA being what it is today because of Amtrak, and after they ditched Amtrak and went with other operators, problems have arised. Metrolink is going back to amtrak and I hear the MBTA will be choosing Amtrak again. Im sure because of this, Amtrak will have hard feelings, and maybe rightfully so, but then again, anyone in this industry can say that this sort of thing happens all of the time. Ahhh well. I suppose this is progress for VRE, but I wouldnt hold your breathe

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Ahhh well. I suppose this is progress for VRE, but I wouldn't hold your breathe

''

What the French company can do in America is questionable. What it can do in France is well known. VRE chose the cheapest bidder. Amtrak lost this bid by bidding too high. Losing competitive bids happens all the time in America. What's so new about that?

There are successful commuter rail operations all across America that do not contract with Amtrak to operate and maintain their trains. IMHO, Amtrak shouldn't be so arrogant to expect to win every contract. As I understand it, the French company bid was just $1 Million less than Amtrak's. Which clues me into maybe the VRE was displeased with past Amtrak services. I don't know why, but apparently VRE is very happy to be dropping Amtrak.

I don't see how Amtrak was being arrogant at all. They operated the services very well so of course with that said, why shouldn't they feel a certain way when they lose a contract. Wow Amtrak lost the contract because they bid a million dollars more then what the French did? I will guarantee that when all is said or done, they will be spending more money with the French company then they did with Amtrak. VRE still will need to access union station, plus the equipment needs to be maintained somewhere and I'm sure that doesn't come cheap.

As with many of these contract it seems VRE sees" grass as greener on other side of fence".
Past performance by these operating agencies like Veolia - Keolis and Hertzog usually have the Commuter carrier run back for Amtrak later on.
See MetroLink.
The Contract bidding is at very low margins, Amtrak can't loose a penny on such deals without getting under federal scrutiny, these agencies like Veolia or Keolis will bid low, but start crying poverty soon.

DutchRailnut wrote:As with many of these contract it seems VRE sees" grass as greener on other side of fence".
Past performance by these operating agencies like Veolia - Keolis and Hertzog usually have the Commuter carrier run back for Amtrak later on.
See MetroLink.
The Contract bidding is at very low margins, Amtrak can't loose a penny on such deals without getting under federal scrutiny, these agencies like Veolia or Keolis will bid low, but start crying poverty soon.

Really? Commuter rail operators in USA:
1 Long Island Rail Road = Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA)
2 Metra = Regional Transportation Authority (RTA)
3 Metro-North Railroad = Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA)
4 New Jersey Transit = NJT
5 MBTA Commuter Rail = Veolia Transportation, Bombardier and Alternate Concepts, Inc.
6 SEPTA Regional Rail = SEPTA
7 Metrolink = Veolia Transportation (soon to be Amtrak again)
8 Caltrain = Amtrak
9 MARC = CSX Transportation (Camden and Brunswick) and Amtrak (Penn)
10 Virginia Railway Express = Amtrak (soon to be Keolis Rail Services America)
11 SFRTA Tri-Rail = Veolia Transportation
12 NICTD South Shore Line = Chicago SouthShore and South Bend Railroad
13 Sounder Commuter Rail = BNSF Railway
14 Trinity Railway Express = Herzog Transit Services
15 NCTD Coaster = TransitAmerica
16 New Mexico Rail Runner = Rio Metro
17 UTA FrontRunner = UTA
18 Altamont Commuter Express = Herzog Transit Services
19 Shore Line East = Amtrak. Amtrak owns and dispatches the Northeast Corridor east of New Haven. West of New Haven, the Corridor is owned by ConnDOT and dispatched by Metro-North.
20 Westside Express Service = Portland & Western Railroad
21 Music City Star = Regional Transportation Authority (RTA)

Of the 21 commuter rail agencies, Amtrak has contracts to provide operational services to just 3 now.

Ron, that is indeed an informative compilation you have submitted to the forum; I have several additions to make regarding Chicago area service.

The Chicago Aurora line passing my home is operated by BNSF under a Purchase of Service Agreement, or POSA in METRAese. Under this Agreement BNSF essentially provides a "turnkey" operation to METRA. However, any person involved in the provision of this service is employed by BNSF - including police. In addition to the obvious of Train & Engine, as well as Maintenance of Equipment, Revenue Accounting is also performed by BNSF employees. While all equipment used is METRA liveried, those cars that at one time were owned by CB&Q also display a BNSF "Flash Gordon" logo. Conductors wear uniforms with BNSF insignia. Police Officers that ride the "rowdy trains' are uniformed with BNSF patches.

In short, there is a strong BNSF corporate presence associated with this service - obviously that is how BNSF wants such to be. While METRA is overall a "heads up" operation, that over the BNSF represents 'the best of the best".

Union Pacific also holds a similar POSA contract to operate service over former C&NW lines, but I think the corporate presence is somewhat less noticeable. Defer of course to anyone who regularly rides those lines.

electricron wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:As with many of these contract it seems VRE sees" grass as greener on other side of fence".
Past performance by these operating agencies like Veolia - Keolis and Hertzog usually have the Commuter carrier run back for Amtrak later on.
See MetroLink.
The Contract bidding is at very low margins, Amtrak can't loose a penny on such deals without getting under federal scrutiny, these agencies like Veolia or Keolis will bid low, but start crying poverty soon.

Really? Commuter rail operators in USA:
1 Long Island Rail Road = Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA)
2 Metra = Regional Transportation Authority (RTA)
3 Metro-North Railroad = Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA)
4 New Jersey Transit = NJT
5 MBTA Commuter Rail = Veolia Transportation, Bombardier and Alternate Concepts, Inc.
6 SEPTA Regional Rail = SEPTA
7 Metrolink = Veolia Transportation (soon to be Amtrak again)
8 Caltrain = Amtrak
9 MARC = CSX Transportation (Camden and Brunswick) and Amtrak (Penn)
10 Virginia Railway Express = Amtrak (soon to be Keolis Rail Services America)
11 SFRTA Tri-Rail = Veolia Transportation
12 NICTD South Shore Line = Chicago SouthShore and South Bend Railroad
13 Sounder Commuter Rail = BNSF Railway
14 Trinity Railway Express = Herzog Transit Services
15 NCTD Coaster = TransitAmerica
16 New Mexico Rail Runner = Rio Metro
17 UTA FrontRunner = UTA
18 Altamont Commuter Express = Herzog Transit Services
19 Shore Line East = Amtrak. Amtrak owns and dispatches the Northeast Corridor east of New Haven. West of New Haven, the Corridor is owned by ConnDOT and dispatched by Metro-North.
20 Westside Express Service = Portland & Western Railroad
21 Music City Star = Regional Transportation Authority (RTA)

Of the 21 commuter rail agencies, Amtrak has contracts to provide operational services to just 3 now.

Out of those 21 though 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 are running themselves without needing to higher an outside contractor, in addition it looks like 17, 21 and a few others might be running themselves also. Once a railroad gets large enough it is more economical to run it by it's self or via another state agency then pay an outside third party to do it for you.

NICTD runs the South Shore passenger operations itself. Chicago SouthShore and South Bend is the freight contractor, operating on NITCD-owned tracks.

Metra runs its own lines, Electric, Rock Island, Milwaukee; Metra crews run North Central, SouthWest and Heritage on leased or trackage rights, contracts with BNSF and UP for operations on their lines.