Commuter Rail Contracts

Obviously Chicago's various lines are operated by various companies, but the point I really wanted to make is that Amtrak doesn't run any of them. Which means Amtrak operates NE corridor commuter trains east of New Haven, and operates several, but not all, California commuter trains.

That's not all that much nationally, yet some suggest it's a crime for Amtrak to lose the VRE contract?

electricron wrote:Obviously Chicago's various lines are operated by various companies, but the point I really wanted to make is that Amtrak doesn't run any of them. Which means Amtrak operates NE corridor commuter trains east of New Haven, and operates several, but not all, California commuter trains.

That's not all that much nationally, yet some suggest it's a crime for Amtrak to lose the VRE contract?

Nope, no one said that it was a crime, you just took it as such.
Frontrunner is being run by themselves, with the engineers coming up thru the ranks of light rail and bus drivers(I looked into working for them and moving out to the Salt Lake area about 1 years ago). Obviously many transit companies run there own railroads as Septa was mentioned. I worked there for 7 years, with 5 of them being as an engineer.I think its great that local transit companies run there own railroads but if its going to get sub contracted out , then it should be operated by someone who has experience in American railroading. As was mentioned by myself, and also by Dutch, a few companies were being run by Amtrak, Amtrak lost the contracts, the companies went elsewhere, and only after the new operators ran the place into the ground, they want to go back to Amtrak being the operator.Also, the MTA run services like Long Island and Metro North,and they are very well run services but the cost of running the railroad is higher over there then it is with Amtrak, with better wages and benefits, so Eletricon, your comment makes it sound like that its more expensive to go with Amtrak all the time???I think not, but thats not to take away from the guys at the MTA, they deserve every bit of what they get paid. I guess that goes back to going with Veola or Connex or whatever is to pay these employees a lower wage, but to pay a lower wage to railroad employees dealing with hours and stress isnt always good and I think thats for another discussion...

electricron wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Ahhh well. I suppose this is progress for VRE, but I wouldn't hold your breathe

''

What the French company can do in America is questionable. What it can do in France is well known. VRE chose the cheapest bidder. Amtrak lost this bid by bidding too high. Losing competitive bids happens all the time in America. What's so new about that?

There are successful commuter rail operations all across America that do not contract with Amtrak to operate and maintain their trains. IMHO, Amtrak shouldn't be so arrogant to expect to win every contract. As I understand it, the French company bid was just $1 Million less than Amtrak's. Which clues me into maybe the VRE was displeased with past Amtrak services. I don't know why, but apparently VRE is very happy to be dropping Amtrak.

When Veolia were still called Connex they had two franchises in southern England on the third rail network. They lost both of them for poor service. Their successors run a better service.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:As was mentioned by myself, and also by Dutch, a few companies were being run by Amtrak, Amtrak lost the contracts, the companies went elsewhere, and only after the new operators ran the place into the ground, they want to go back to Amtrak being the operator. I guess that goes back to going with Veola or Connex or whatever is to pay these employees a lower wage, but to pay a lower wage to railroad employees dealing with hours and stress isnt always good and I think thats for another discussion...

You're quick to put Keolis Rail Services America into the same bin as Veola, but I would like to remind you they are different companies.
What you're doing is like lumping Amtrak with Veola, and I know you wouldn't do that. Also, from all that I've read so far, they aren't planning to pay employees a lower range, how quick you are to suggest so. You might be an Amtrak employee about to loose a job to be so negative about a company you know so little about.

electricron wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:As was mentioned by myself, and also by Dutch, a few companies were being run by Amtrak, Amtrak lost the contracts, the companies went elsewhere, and only after the new operators ran the place into the ground, they want to go back to Amtrak being the operator. I guess that goes back to going with Veola or Connex or whatever is to pay these employees a lower wage, but to pay a lower wage to railroad employees dealing with hours and stress isnt always good and I think thats for another discussion...

You're quick to put Keolis Rail Services America into the same bin as Veola, but I would like to remind you they are different companies.
What you're doing is like lumping Amtrak with Veola, and I know you wouldn't do that. Also, from all that I've read so far, they aren't planning to pay employees a lower range, how quick you are to suggest so. You might be an Amtrak employee about to loose a job to be so negative about a company you know so little about.

Actually you know very little about me as I'm not losing my job. I work out of NYC. Also if you reread my post, I never mentioned this company was planning to pay the vre employees at a lower pace and merely qouted what the wash post printed. Don't assume anything about me or Amtrak. Thank you

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:I never mentioned this company was planning to pay the vre employees at a lower pace and merely qouted what the wash post printed.

Maybe you never wrote it specifically, but you sure meant it by implying.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:I guess that goes back to going with Veola or Connex or whatever is to pay these employees a lower wage, but to pay a lower wage to railroad employees dealing with hours and stress isnt always good

electricron, you must be a big kid, because you have taken 2 comments and mixed them as one. I have mentioned a quote by the Washington Metro about the displaced Amtrak employees that will be offered job and comparable wages and others have mentioned Veola and Connex and I mentiopned lower wages with those companies that were running trains in America and have had problems.YES, I know for a fact that Connex and Veola offer lower wages then what was offered at Amtrak and maintanance is another sub par issue with these french companies. If you have a problem with the facts and statements that I and others have posted, then please ignore them because I dont feel like getting into a pissing match with you. Again, you dont know me, and dont know what you are talking about and that really shows, but maybe I should simply take a page out of your book and just assume that you work for one of these nasty lil French companies that have a horrible track record in this country and you are merely sticking up for them. In any case, who cares.Again dont assume something or JUST THINK someone is implying something.

The workers who currently maintain and operate the VRE are they Amtrak workers? I believe so and if I'm correct then why would they leave Amtrak to go to another operator who may or may not be able to offer them the same benfits/ seniority/etc. as they had with Amtrak? Like Dutch said, these concerns are what is on the current employees minds.

Amtrak is challenging the award based on the new operators experience here in the US along with other things. Amtrak had a long standing operating contract with the VRE and yes they should feel slighted against because if the VRE was unhappy with the service-----then they should have made Amtrak aware of this long before the contract expires.

Yes, the VRE staffed trains are Amtrak employees so after VRE is done with, those employees can bump elsewhere if they chose, or stay with the VRE trains and go with the new French company. Metrolink and MBTA were run by Amtrak and when those contracts were taken over by the French companies, these employees were given the option to stay or go to Amtrak and the employees that stayed were given preference and priority seniority wise over new employees that come after the contracts get signed

Employees leaving Amtrak will give up national seniority, a known labor contract and railroad retirement, for a company with no known labor contract a promise of certain wages. no guarantees in employment or even if new company will pay railroad retirement or not.

DutchRailnut wrote:Employees leaving Amtrak will give up national seniority, a known labor contract and railroad retirement, for a company with no known labor contract a promise of certain wages. no guarantees in employment or even if new company will pay railroad retirement or not.

Yes Thank you. I knew there was something I was forgetting. Well said

Meanwhile Amtrak is challanging the VRE decision.

http://www.masstransitmag.com/publicati ... =3&id=9939#

Dutch & Budd,

The things you guys mentioned IMHO is the driving point to all of this. What I don't understand is this French company doesn't have a facility to service the equipment, so what will they do? Lease space from Amtrak? At that point Amtrak can charge them through the roof! They would have no other choice at that point.

Someone made the point that Amtrak lost the contract by $1million dollars which indicates Amtrak was over pricing themselves. In my opinion you get what you paid for. The lowest bidder deosn't mean you get good service or in this case the service is unknown here in the states. The same could be said about going with a higher price competitor. However, there is something to be said when the price tag is a little high and there is history which comes with it.

Amtrak claims VRE's request for the proposal stated that 80 percent of the scoring would be based on an applicant's "performance and experience," and Keolis has no experience operating under U.S. rail safety and security regulations, Amtrak officials said.

VRE spokesman Mark Roeber said 80 percent of the scoring looked at commuter rail operations in totality, addressing everything from an applicant's experience and system safety to maintenance and management plans. The other 20 percent looked at cost effectiveness.

Maybe that's why Amtrak lost the contract, they didn't understand what VRE was looking for and how VRE was evaluating the bids.

Keolis is a subsidiary of SNCF, they have experience running railroads and dealing with unions. Veolia was formerly known as Connex; it's part of a multi-national conglomerate and their experience is mainly in running bus companies. Veolia/Connex have had some US railroad contracts but their record shows that they have some learning to do.