Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2013

I believe that switch to the CSX river line is of primary importance here. Because if CSX reconnects the switch it'll show that they think the line has potential or at least future potential. And for the CMRR to get a MAJOR class 1 railroad on their side like CSX, then the politicians will have to take notice. Rail trail folks/lobby probably stands NO chance against a class 1 railroad company and there corporate legal dept. And furthermore for the CMRR to have access to the national railroad network (I think that's what it is called) is not small potatoes.

airman00 wrote:I believe that switch to the CSX river line is of primary importance here. Because if CSX reconnects the switch it'll show that they think the line has potential or at least future potential. And for the CMRR to get a MAJOR class 1 railroad on their side like CSX, then the politicians will have to take notice. Rail trail folks/lobby probably stands NO chance against a class 1 railroad company and there corporate legal dept. And furthermore for the CMRR to have access to the national railroad network (I think that's what it is called) is not small potatoes.

Is the CMRR really working on this goal ? Once in while I hear it then it seems to fade away , If someone like Herzogs and a others would show CSX they are potential customers that may help

DogBert wrote:On a lighter note, I heard ya'all are getting an ex LIRR coach via NYA - it went up to selkirk last week. Any thoughts on where it'll arrive, and how? (I'm assuming it has to be placed on a truck somewhere)

You let the cat out of the bag DogBert!

jmarino wrote:

airman00 wrote:I believe that switch to the CSX river line is of primary importance here. Because if CSX reconnects the switch it'll show that they think the line has potential or at least future potential....

Is the CMRR really working on this goal ? Once in while I hear it then it seems to fade away...

Nothing has "faded away." CMRR has had freight customers prior to 1996, and the railroad is indeed seeking new ones for the future:

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/freight.php

There's really little reason to have the switch reinstalled without a firm commitment from a customer as there is some cost involved. From what I understand, CSX would not install a switch just because they think it's a "good idea."

-otto-

Putting that switch back in will cost way up in the six figures and require a significant amount of political pressure. CSX will not put that back in unless forced to. It's going to take more than one or two customers getting a few cars here and there. There's bigger battles to fight, and to be blunt, that ain't one of them right now.

Saturday, February 23rd

Cornell Street will open at 9am. Plans are to continue work on the new west switch.


Sunday, February 24th

Cornell Street may be open on Sunday. Please call Mark Glaser or Earl Pardini to confirm.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

scoostraw wrote:

DogBert wrote:On a lighter note, I heard ya'all are getting an ex LIRR coach via NYA - it went up to selkirk last week. Any thoughts on where it'll arrive, and how? (I'm assuming it has to be placed on a truck somewhere)

You let the cat out of the bag DogBert!

D'oh! Sorry - I wasn't sure if I was - there was a thread on the ny&a board that's like 2 weeks old. I thought it was old news

chefwrg wrote:Putting that switch back in will cost way up in the six figures and require a significant amount of political pressure. CSX will not put that back in unless forced to. It's going to take more than one or two customers getting a few cars here and there. There's bigger battles to fight, and to be blunt, that ain't one of them right now.

I reference a part of this post from Mr. Ernest Hunt, in 2012 in regards to CMRR's potential switch to the CSX river line:

"The current idea for reconnecting to the main line is using a "lift frog", low maintenance switch with CSX:

http://www.progressrail.com/docs/lift-frog.pdf

http://ict.illinois.edu/railroad/CEE/pd ... -14-10.pdf

http://www.arema.org/files/library/2008 ... k_2008.pdf

These switches are very low maintenance, and are specially used for low volume siding connections.

This is much easier than a conventional switch at the prior location or trying to connect to Track No. 9 on Greenkill Avenue (former Wallkill Valley Line).

FYI, the switch location prior to 1976 was north of Smith Avenue and connected to a now-gone freight track that went up to North Yard, rather than connected directly to the main. The switch reinistalled in 1986 and removed in 1995 was connected directly onto the main south of Smith Street." (end of my reference of ernie's post)

Accordingly then this low maintenance switch probably should not be as expensive as a regular mainline switch. Plus Class 1 RR's are seemingly into this kind of switch. Anyway, yes the CMRR needs freight customers, in order to get CSX on board with this, however my point was that the switch would show the local politico's that CSX is "on-board" so to speak with what you guys are doing.

airman00 wrote:

chefwrg wrote:Putting that switch back in will cost way up in the six figures and require a significant amount of political pressure. CSX will not put that back in unless forced to. It's going to take more than one or two customers getting a few cars here and there. There's bigger battles to fight, and to be blunt, that ain't one of them right now.

I reference a part of this post from Mr. Ernest Hunt, in 2012 in regards to CMRR's potential switch to the CSX river line:

"The current idea for reconnecting to the main line is using a "lift frog", low maintenance switch with CSX:

http://www.progressrail.com/docs/lift-frog.pdf

http://ict.illinois.edu/railroad/CEE/pd ... -14-10.pdf

http://www.arema.org/files/library/2008 ... k_2008.pdf

These switches are very low maintenance, and are specially used for low volume siding connections.

This is much easier than a conventional switch at the prior location or trying to connect to Track No. 9 on Greenkill Avenue (former Wallkill Valley Line).

FYI, the switch location prior to 1976 was north of Smith Avenue and connected to a now-gone freight track that went up to North Yard, rather than connected directly to the main. The switch reinistalled in 1986 and removed in 1995 was connected directly onto the main south of Smith Street." (end of my reference of ernie's post)

Accordingly then this low maintenance switch probably should not be as expensive as a regular mainline switch. Plus Class 1 RR's are seemingly into this kind of switch. Anyway, yes the CMRR needs freight customers, in order to get CSX on board with this, however my point was that the switch would show the local politico's that CSX is "on-board" so to speak with what you guys are doing.

Makes cense not put a switch in until there a cost effective reason . But when and if the switch is put in does this involve the signal system ?
The other thing the county should be trying help get some rail customers , this would mean creating jobs example a large scale factory etc , not only a rail customer but would put people to work and they would hAve to pay taxes etc.

chefwrg wrote:Putting that switch back in will cost way up in the six figures and require a significant amount of political pressure. CSX will not put that back in unless forced to. It's going to take more than one or two customers getting a few cars here and there. There's bigger battles to fight, and to be blunt, that ain't one of them right now.

and I am sure Mr. Hein wont put pressure on for switch

Consider this too... Right now the CMRR resides on an "isolated stretch of trackage". (isolated as not connected) The article referenced by Mr. Marino from the Kingston newspaper even called the tracks "abandoned". Now everyone here knows the line is not abandoned. However the terms "isolated" and "abandoned" can go hand in hand, in the eyes and minds of those who wish to see the line turned into a trail. With the switch re-installed in whatever form possible, the CMRR is no longer "isolated" and then in theory cannot be called "abandoned".

Think of it this way, how can you consider "abandoned" a line that has a connection to the Major northeast rail artery?

The idea is to show those in authority that this is not some old isolated abandoned stretch of track, but rather a line with lots of potential be that present or future, and having the switch will help accomplish that.

Otto Vondrak wrote:

jmarino wrote:

airman00 wrote:I believe that switch to the CSX river line is of primary importance here. Because if CSX reconnects the switch it'll show that they think the line has potential or at least future potential....

Is the CMRR really working on this goal ? Once in while I hear it then it seems to fade away...

Nothing has "faded away." CMRR has had freight customers prior to 1996, and the railroad is indeed seeking new ones for the future:

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/freight.php

There's really little reason to have the switch reinstalled without a firm commitment from a customer as there is some cost involved. From what I understand, CSX would not install a switch just because they think it's a "good idea."

-otto-

Yes Otto I have to agree , why install a switch when it wont generate revenue for them [csx] , I have been thinking of existing potential customers and not coming up with much Herzogs and Pecham materials on 28 , that's probably not enough business to even justify the Cmrr efforts to put a siding in however a lot of little customers would be good ? Maybe ? I am sure CSX would love to see the small railroad generate customers and be able to put in a switch for the cmrr they are in the business to make money .

Otto how does cmrr get there engines and rolling stock to there main line ? Is it all by truck or is there another connection to a class three railroad

Everything must be trucked in, because there is no connection to any other RR (Class I, II or III) at this time.

Saturday, February 23rd

Saturday at Cornell St. , a track crew installed the frog for the storage siding's new west end switch. Four additional switch ties were placed under the rail. Participating today were, Earl Pardini, George Peck, Peter Fluchere, Thom Johnson, and Mark Glaser.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=206816

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=206817



Sunday, February 24th

Sunday in Kingston work on the new west switch continued. All mainline switchrail east of the frog was spiked and fourteen additional swich ties were placed under the rail. The frog was jacked, placed on hook plates and position spiked at both ends. Today's crew included Earl Pardini, Jim Bruck, George Peck, and Mark Glaser.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR