Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2012

Thanks,

It is very good that you can reuse the old girders. I wish you the best with getting that done. Its not going to be easy.

Glad to know you're still going strong and the Kingston ride over C9 will be awesome. People will love that.

SilverLakeRailroad wrote:You know what I meant about the bridge.

I did not know which bridge you were referring to as we have lost many spans over the Esopus to floods over the last 20 years or so.

Thanks once again Otto...

You are welcome. Keep in mind I am only one volunteer, my answers don't speak for the railroad.

Also, consider our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/CatskillMountainRailroad

-otto-

neroden wrote:So what's the price of ties? A "buy a tie" program seems like the sort of fundraising scheme which usually works.

That's actually more complicated than it sounds. Catskill Mountain Railroad Co. is a for-profit corporation and cannot hold a "fundraiser" from what I understand. There's some more details, but I'll let Ernie Hunt elaborate if he feels the need. The idea has been brought up before, but understand that the relationship of County ownership and our private lessor operation complicates some things that we'd like to do. The CMRR is not a museum or a historical society... It is a functioning railroad company that relies on volunteers and the support of folks who come out to buy tickets and ride our trains.

-otto-

Friday, July 13th

The CMRR participated in the Kingston Children's Day Parade. At the end of the evening the crew took some riders down to C9 and back.

Mt Tremper - The engineer was Al Schoessow and conductor was Neil Isabelle. John Prestopino was brakeman. Russ Hallock was Ticket agent and flagger.


Saturday, July 14th

In Mt. Tremper, Al Schoessow was engineer, Ray Farrell conductor and Bill Kaba brakeman. Walt Otto was flagger and Peter Fluchere was ticket agent.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=201762

Also in Mt. Tremper, George Peck, Art Vogel and I took nine loads of stone to the minor washout at MP 25.5 with the hi-rail dump truck. We now have over half the fill we need at this location to repair the track and extend our ride westwards a half mile from Mt. Tremper.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=201763

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=201764

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=201765

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=201767

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=201768

In Kingston, the CMRR ran four passenger trains (extra) from it's Westbrook Lane Station. Today's crew; Earl Pardini-engineer, Mimi Pardini and Alex Sorenson - car attendants, Tony Bochinno and Tony Gambino flaggers and trainmen in training. Mark Glaser-conductor. George Bain was ticket agent.


Sunday, July 15th

In Mt. Tremper, Engineer was Walt Otto with John Watson the conductor. Trainman was Tony Bocchino and Al Shoessow a car attendant. Ed Winstanley was flagger and Bruce Devorkin ticket agent.

In Kingston, from Mark Glaser: "On Sunday in Kingston, track maintenance just east of MP 4 (Fair St. Crossing) included replacement of three ties,renewal of a damaged joint bar set,tamping and bolt work as needed. The crew returned to C-9 later in the afternoon and installed one of a pair of steel pedestals on the north side of the girder bridge section's middle pier. Today's crew included: Earl Pardini, Bob Blake, John Patane, Will Wilsey, and myself."


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

Otto Vondrak wrote:That's actually more complicated than it sounds. Catskill Mountain Railroad Co. is a for-profit corporation and cannot hold a "fundraiser" from what I understand. There's some more details, but I'll let Ernie Hunt elaborate if he feels the need. The idea has been brought up before, but understand that the relationship of County ownership and our private lessor operation complicates some things that we'd like to do. The CMRR is not a museum or a historical society... It is a functioning railroad company that relies on volunteers and the support of folks who come out to buy tickets and ride our trains.

-otto-

There's gotta be a way to fix that, even if it means adding additional legal complications.

In the UK, the Bluebell Railway is a ordinary "operated for profit" corporation, a plc (I know they're a bit different in the UK than the US) which is owned by a "society" (membership-controlled group, a legally incorporated club) which is also supported by a separate "Trust" which is a charity.

Surely it would be possible to have a "Friends of the Esopus Creek Route" organization which would be legally capable of doing fundraisers, purchasing items for the railroad line with the funds, and donating those to the County for the railroad, with CMRR as lessor using the materials. I know local governments can accept charitable donations. Assuming the existing rails and ties are county-owned this doesn't create any ownership complications which don't already exist.

EDIT: of course, the same people are all three organizations in the Bluebell. I wonder if the US has more severe laws against having "multiple hats".

I thought CMRR had their 501c3 nonprofit?

Just because the railroad is a for-profit corporation doesn't mean they can't accept gifts. If someone like neroden stands up and says "Hey how much are ties anyway? I'd like to buy some for you guys." That's not a problem. The only "problem" is that neroden cannot deduct his donation from his income taxes.

That's why the CMRR cannot run an effective fundraising campaign. If a donor gives money to the Empire State Railway Museum however, then it is deductible. In the future if the ESRM were to lease the track from the county instead of CMRR, then it would all change.

The CMRR is chartered as a railroad operating company, like any other railroad in NY State. It is owned by its stockholders. It leases the track from a non-profit, Ulster County, and they are able to apply for grants for the railroad as a non-profit. The arrangement is similar to The Valley Railroad in CT and how it leases track from the Connecticut DEP.

The CMRR can accept donations but can't give you a tax writeoff. We get them from time to time and the money goes into the track.

The ESRM is a museum and non-profit, and can accept donations and give a writeoff. The ESRM owns engine 23 and several pieces of equipment that are desperately in need of capital, and will hopefully eventually have a fundraising campaign to fund their restoration.

Although this arrangement has its plusses and minusses, it has worked through the years and has not hindered us from assisting the County in applying for grants. It has only hindered us from receiving a large donation from a non-profit (such as the O'Connor foundation's relationship with D&U), but as far as I know no foundation has ever looked at major funding for the Ulster County portion of the ROW (if it did a non-profit entity could be quickly formed to accept the funds).

As the railroad grows, and we add paid staff, we may create a parallel "Friends" non-profit group (as per the VRR). But that is still a ways off.

EH

The westbound crossing gate at the CMRR's Route 28 crossing in Mt. Tremper was replaced today. It was taken out by a motorist about 2 months ago.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=201891

Many thanks to John Prestopino and Al Schoessow who assisted the contractor in installing the new gate.


Ernie Hunt
CMRR

So are you guys ready to interchange freight with CSX? A rail to truck bulk transfer facility may be needed in your neighborhood...

Kind of hard to interchange with no switch or physical connection to CSX.

ccutler wrote:So are you guys ready to interchange freight with CSX? A rail to truck bulk transfer facility may be needed in your neighborhood...

If there's one needed, no one has approached the railroad yet, as far as I know. Plus, Conrail took our switch out in 1996, so we'd have to campaign CSX hard to get it reinstalled.

-otto-

Saturday, July 21st

On Saturday George Peck plans to continue work to restore the track at MP 25.5 with the gradall and side-dump. George will start at 9am at Mt. Tremper.

In Kingston, Cornell Street will open at 10:30am.


Sunday, July 22nd

George Peck will continue on 25.5. He will start at Mt. Tremper at 9am.

In Kingston, Earl Pardini plans to start at 9:30am at Cornell Street. Plans are to continue to install the new pedestals for the girder bridges on C9 and continue trackwork. Some brushwork is needed near Dutch Village, so please bring loppers and brush cutters for work there.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

"...Conrail took our switch out in 1996, so we'd have to campaign CSX hard to get it reinstalled."

Why did they do that?

Paul W. Brasky wrote:"...Conrail took our switch out in 1996, so we'd have to campaign CSX hard to get it reinstalled."

Why did they do that?

Because the switch was of no benefit to Conrail. From what I understand, CMRR had an actual freight customer in Kingston in the 1980s. When that customer went away, there was little reason to keep the switch so Conrail removed it.

-otto-