Buffalo Central Station under Amtrak (Past, Present, Future)

I was wondering when, and who, would suggest a Southern Tier train

Anything is possible if Ohio or Ontario gets on board, or if Pennsylvania wants a Tier train via Scranton and Allentown. BCS might be the best place to service and/or terminate those trains.

On one hand, I think it would be of fairly limited utility because of the population density and routing, but I think politically it could be very useful. Get more people access to trains and hopefully get some more support.

Of course part of the issue is on the east end, limited slots through the existing tunnels to get into NYP. So that's another reason to wait on it.

Passenger trains on the Southern Tier? I don't think so, there is probably not enough population to warrant any passenger service, the line between Binghamton and Port Jervis is very slow at best, too many curves. Route 17 is not that far away and would be a lot faster and probably better as well. The line also rides on the New York - Pennsylvania line as well and I doubt if both states would agree on joint support for something like this. The existing route is adequate for New York - Buffalo train service and the Southern Tier would only serve Buffalo. There is probably already adequate bus service here too.
Noel Weaver

To be clear, I think a southern tier route is almost all a "political" train. Yes, it's not the most practical, but Amtrak runs on politics as much as diesel and broadening support is a good thing.

If people in those communities truly want service it's no more "political" than the impending service re/start on the Gulf Coast. The real question is, "How much?" meaning, ridership, revenues, and "reimbursement" (state payments to Amtrak or in the case of the Gulf, federal payments to Amtrak).

Noel Weaver wrote:Passenger trains on the Southern Tier? I don't think so, there is probably not enough population to warrant any passenger service, the line between Binghamton and Port Jervis is very slow at best, too many curves. Route 17 is not that far away and would be a lot faster and probably better as well. The line also rides on the New York - Pennsylvania line as well and I doubt if both states would agree on joint support for something like this. The existing route is adequate for New York - Buffalo train service and the Southern Tier would only serve Buffalo. There is probably already adequate bus service here too.
Noel Weaver

Mr. Weaver, you are spot on; I would like to see service to Binghamton via Albany as that would be the quickest route to the Amtrak System. Scranton would make sense if they had existing Amtrak service, but they only have Thruway service.

However regarding BCT and expanded service, I would like to see another train to Toronto; a morning train would be nice with an evening return and I know there is passenger volume for it.

Here's some more local press from November for a better idea of what the community perspective is:

The task of selecting the location for a new Buffalo train station will be handed to a blue ribbon panel that will spend a million dollars studying the question over the next six months.

Mayor Byron Brown anticipates announcing the committee members this week, though the site probably won’t be known until mid- to late-2017.

Three sites dominate the conversation so far: Canalside, a short distance from the current station on Exchange Street, the Central Terminal, where Amtrak last operated trains in 1979, and Larkinville.

...

Three sites for new Buffalo train station all pose challenges

Where could Buffalo’s new train station go: Canalside, the Central Terminal or Larkinville? (News file photos)
By Mark Sommer
Published Wed, Nov 16, 2016 Updated Thu, Nov 17, 2016

The task of selecting the location for a new Buffalo train station will be handed to a blue ribbon panel that will spend a million dollars studying the question over the next six months.

Mayor Byron Brown anticipates announcing the committee members this week, though the site probably won’t be known until mid- to late-2017.

Three sites dominate the conversation so far: Canalside, a short distance from the current station on Exchange Street, the Central Terminal, where Amtrak last operated trains in 1979, and Larkinville.
While it’s too soon to know how much a train station in Buffalo will cost, the new Niagara Falls station, which includes bus service, cost $43 million.

Here is a look at the three sites, their advantages and disadvantages, and the people and groups supporting the different sites.

---

Return to the Central Terminal

Who’s in favor: Rep. Brian Higgins, Assemblywoman Crystal Peoples-Stokes, Assemblyman Sean Ryan, State Sen. Tim Kennedy, Fillmore Council Member David Franczyk, Central Terminal’s designated developer Harry Stinson, Citizens for Regional Transit, Preservation Buffalo Niagara.

Why: The tangle of rail lines that converge at the Central Terminal -- both mainline and Belt Line tracks -- are the reason the station was located on the East Side back in 1929, 2.9 miles from City Hall.

“From Central Terminal, you can go directly to New York City, directly to Toronto and directly to points west to Cleveland and Chicago,” said Mark Lewandowski, director of operations for the Central Terminal Restoration Corp., the not-for-profit entity that owns the former station.

The Mayor and the Harbor Redevelopment folks are supporting the Canalside station ... There is a lone architect supporting a "Larkinville" location.

Do the political math and my opinion this panel is a good political setup for Buffalo Central to be chosen as the preferred location. My sense when I see an extended official running against the consensus choice is that individual may have some friends they need to stand behind on this issue. The selection of a public commission will give that individual the ability to stand aside in favor of a demonstrated public consensus.

A response to an earlier critique making a case for improving on existing stations:

Political will for a new station has clearly coalesced at the present moment. Sen. Schumer and Rep. Higgins seem confident they can line-up federal funds that would support much of the project. Given Western New York’s legacy of inaction, any time when political leadership comes together to forge a solution, its best to take advantage of those rare circumstances. There presently is no similar will to substantially upgrade passenger rail infrastructure in Upstate New York, as desperately as that is needed, to concur with at least part of Mr. Whalen’s argument.

Moving forward with a new Buffalo station does not preclude improving the rail infrastructure, either in the short- or long-term future. To use a holiday season analogy, it would be similar to arguing we cannot cook the turkey until the mashed potatoes are ready. Both are needed. It’s rather unlikely the station momentum would shift to the rail infrastructure. Instead, it would likely evaporate and the current dreary ‘Amshacks’ would remain.

This issue has been boiling hot on the pages of the Buffalo press in December. I counted no less than 6 letters to the editor discussing the new station all published in the last 25 days or so.

The fate of Buffalo's Central Terminal could be shaped as much by the people who would live there as by those catching trains.

Indeed, while Toronto developer Harry Stinson envisions the return of trains to the abandoned art deco marvel heu wants to redevelop on the East Side, his plan doesn't depend on them.

Stinson recently received a six-month extension as designated developer by both the City of Buffalo and the Central Terminal Restoration Corp., which owns the former station, to fine-tune his plan, woo investors and negotiate property transfers

...

"It is the most exciting project I’ve ever been involved in, and I can’t wait to get started," Stinson said. "I think it’s viable. The members of the team are good, they’re competent, they’re credible, and they would not be doing this publicly if they thought it wouldn't work."

"I have rarely been involved in a project that has had so much of its own momentum, and where people are openly enthusiastic," Stinson said.

Those who are pulling for him to succeed are encouraged by how a lot of things that once seemed unlikely in Buffalo – from rehabbing the Richardson Olmsted Complex to reviving the waterfront – have occurred in recent years.

The next four to six months will likely determine if Stinson can scale what many see as Buffalo's last mighty mountain to climb – a train station he likens to "a movie set."

...

And here is the plan we've all been wondering about:

Loft-style housing would be in what remains of the former Railway Express Agency Building. (John Hickey/Buffalo News)

The project has two main parts: reusing the Central Terminal, as well as building row houses and lofts in the area around the terminal tentatively called Buffalo Central.

The station's 17-story tower would be used for commercial office space. The four-story baggage building would become a 179-room hotel. And the concourse would feature entertainment/event spaces, for weddings, receptions, trade shows, parties and other large gatherings. Retail stores and restaurants, including the recreation of an art deco restaurant, would be part of the mix.

Developer Harry Stinson envisoins the Central Terminal as a transportation hub. The last Amtrak station used the terminal in 1979. (John Hickey/Buffalo News)
Developer Harry Stinson envisions the Central Terminal as a transportation hub, with a shuttle service connecting people to downtown, the Medical Campus and the airport. (John Hickey/Buffalo News)

Stinson's plan also calls for a transportation hub for trains, buses, vehicles and taxis. A shuttle service would connect people to downtown, the medical corridor and the airport.

There's more in the land use planning but this next part really caught my attention:

The project would benefit from historic tax credits for the Central Terminal, which is on the National Register of Historic Places, and from brownfield tax credits, since significant environmental remediation would be necessary. Together, the tax credits would offset about 25 percent of the project's total cost, according to Adam Walters, a partner with Phillips Lytle.

Finally:

Over the next six months, Stinson must obtain ownership of the Central Terminal from the Central Terminal Restoration Corp., the not-for-profit that owns the station. The developer must also acquire 16 acres along Memorial Drive from the City of Buffalo.

"There is no way this can be financed based on good will and letters of intent," Stinson said. "You can’t finance something you don’t control."

Both the city and the restoration group say they're working in lockstep.

"We are satisfied with the progress, and to be involved in this level of discussion," said Paul Lang, an architect on the project who is also vice chairman of the Central Terminal Restoration Corp.

His voting rights have been restricted by the group to avoid a conflict of interest.

Brendan Mehaffy, who heads the city's Office of Strategic Planning, said the developer has benchmarks to meet over the next six months. They include financial components, and a market study that will support the developer's confidence in the owner-occupied and rental units, since their success is considered necessary for the overall project to succeed financially.

"Everybody wants to see the Central Terminal be redeveloped and that area redeveloped, and at the same time we also need to make sure we have a plan that can accomplish that," Mehaffy said.

I will be very surprised if the City ends up supporting Amtrak at any other location.

Due to expansion of Tesla and Panasonic to have factories in Buffalo, NY, rail becomes more important in the area especially for freight and for passengers for those employees who need transportation.

Buffalo Central is a huge railyard and makes perfect sense to rehabilitate. Looks like Buffalo is making a comeback and rail is definitely needed as part of the transportation infrastructure.

I am not sure how far the factories are from Buffalo Central.

The Southern Tier,aka the former EL route is split up ownership wise:NJT,Hoboken to the NJ/NY state line,then MN to Port Jervis,
then NS(NYSW trackage rights)to Binghamton,then NS/CP(nee D&H) to just outside of Buffalo.
As for passenger service,I don't see a "enforced" transfer at Secausus Jct to reach NY Penn as a great selling point
for Amtrak service via the Tier,and getting to Sunnyside yard for Equipment servicing a"nightmare" at best.

As for the "3 way" split as to what is to be done at Buffalo,it will be awhile before the city has a whole idea of
what will really work well for passenger service.

adamj023 wrote:Due to expansion of Tesla and Panasonic to have factories in Buffalo, NY, rail becomes more important in the area especially for freight and for passengers for those employees who need transportation.

Buffalo Central is a huge railyard and makes perfect sense to rehabilitate. Looks like Buffalo is making a comeback and rail is definitely needed as part of the transportation infrastructure.

I am not sure how far the factories are from Buffalo Central.

It is a single factory; look up Riverbend. It's 3 miles from BCT and about the same from Exchange St. station. It would be 'bus-served' from either location so not really relevant to this topic other than the Buffalo growing perspective.

Given that the proposed redevelopment at BCT involves a substantial housing component I would offer the perspective that this is in fact a significant development.

The housing spaces contemplated could clearly appeal to a substantial portion of factory employees especially skilled trades/technicians, managers and professionals moving to the area.

By irrelevant, I was referring specifically to Riverbend as it will be open and largely staffed long before any proposed development occurs at BCT. Now presuming that 1.) BCT is redeveloped with the proposed housing units; 2.) the Buffalo growth spurt continues; and 3.) the area 'around' BCT can be made at least somewhat presentable to those moving into the region, then you've got a viable project.

Buffalo NY news: I saw an article that said that after the roof collapsed at the current (1979) Amtrak (Amshack?), there is a study underway to determine a best/new station site. The private preservation group that owns the Buffalo Central station (ex NY Central) and a neighborhood group are promoting reusing/restoring it.