ANOTHER QUESTION ON THE DETROIT SERVICE

Were B&O passenger locomotives (steam and diesel) equipped with NYC-style Automatic Train Stop (ATS) for use from the connection at Fassett St. Toledo to Detroit?

There is no waiver in the NYC Toledo Div. Special Instructions allowing operation of non-equipped locomotives in passenger service through the Toledo ATS territory.

At the peak, the timetables show 3 B&O roundtrips between Toledo and Detroit. plus a fourth that terminated (NB) and originated (SB) at Toledo.

Thanks in advance.

I would assume so. There had to be a lot of universality in those days as well, because in case of major deailments and other disasters traffic was detoured over foriegn roads quite often.

I can recall of several times Chicago Division traffic was detoured over the Nickel Plate and New York Central to get around one disaster or another, and vice versa. Somewhere laying around the house Ive got a picture of the 20th Century Limited deep in the heart of NKP country at Bellevue, Ohio

I was told by E.L. Novak, who was an MC man, that the B&O engines were all equipped with all NYC appliances, including ATS. The B&O apparently held these engines in dedicated service in the Det-Tol trains, and also included the P7 streamlined Pacifics. Ernie had quite a few excellent movies of the Cincinatian (in the Detroit terminal area) with these beautiful engines in charge. What a shame they aren't available on DVD or tape anywhere.
The NYC did use the NKP quite a bit for reroutes of the Great Steel Fleet when a problem arose west of Toledo when the traffic was too heavy for the Old Road through Michigan to handle, and usually used the Norwalk Branch (old LS&MS main) East of Toledo between Millbury Jct. and Norwalk.
Best,
Charlie

Right you are Charlie! In fact NYC usually had so much traffic to reroute when something happened, they'd end up using NKP AND the B&O accross northern Ohio.

B&O had a hell of a mess at Milford Junction one year and they detoured all the WB traffic over the Central and the East bound over the NKP. I dont know the exact routing, only I remember hearing my dad say that all they had to do was "kick it over on automatic" when they got on the NYC main with the Capitol Limited.

When did the NYC, PC or CR remove the 4 lines on the Water Level Route between Toledo and Cleveland and why? Seems to me that this would be excellent idea for NS to get back up and running because they are always having accidents or trackwork on this line anymore, or even when they are busy. Heck even 3 lines would help.

Did the 4 lines go further than Cleveland east? If I remember correctly it seems like the Cleveland Line (NS terms) could not have been double tracked. The FT Wayne Line could have been, same goes for the Chicago Line - at least to Rockport Yard.

How about Toledo West?

Thanks all very much

Ryan

Ryan,

Post this query on the New York Central forum.

"MC8000"said: "The B&O apparently held these engines in dedicated service in the Det-Tol trains, and also included the P7 streamlined Pacifics. "

I was under the impression that, because of clearance problems north of Toledo, the P7s were exchanged for other locomotives at Central Union Terminal.

Marvin Cadwell

AFAIK, the only clearance problems would have been in connection with the NYC third rail operation when the Detroit electrification was still in service.

[quote="MC8000"]I was told by E.L. Novak, who was an MC man, that the B&O engines were all equipped with all NYC appliances, including ATS. The B&O apparently held these engines in dedicated service in the Det-Tol trains, and also included the P7 streamlined Pacifics.

Because of clearance restrictions, P7 streamlined Pacifics were exchanged out in Toledo. They rarely, if ever, ran north to Detroit.