Amtrak on the Florida East Coast FEC Jacksonville - Miami

Grade separation costs?

miamicanes wrote:If Amtrak followed FEC south of WPB, I can think of one as-yet nonexistent possible FEC station that would be VERY appealing in South Florida: the southeast corner of Fort Lauderdale Airport, where the tracks briefly straighten out after curving around the airport's front after ducking under 595.

Note: to see what I'm talking about, go to http://tinyurl.com/fecfllstation and scroll around until you see the directions from point A to point B. That's the area I'm talking about.

I like your thinking, but this will probably put a damper on that:








Expansion of Runway 9R-27L, Terminal 4 Gate Relocation and Land Acquisition for Runway 9R-27L March 3, 2011

^^^ Actually, believe it or not (I had to go back and double-check it myself last Friday after the same thought occurred to me), there's still room for the station. See where the tracks emerge from the box tunnel under the runway in the lower image? That's almost exactly where the southwestern end of my proposed platform would go. The remainder of the platform would be northeast of the box tunnel. The plans have the box tunnel maxed out at around 110' wide (preserving the full width of FEC's corridor, and they only have 2 tracks going through it, so there should be plenty of room to add 2 more tracks for passenger trains.

Worst-case, if the platform has to extend into the area where the track starts curving, so be it. Automatic platform extenders (like the ones used in old New York subway stations with curves) are still cheaper than trying to build a new box tunnel under an already-built runway embankment... though honestly, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for them to make the westernmost box tunnel (for the service road) about 15 feet wider than it needs to be for the road alone, just in case someday they need to run passenger track #2 through it alongside the road (it's not like the train would be going 110mph at that point, anyway, so proximity of that one track to the service road wouldn't be a big deal).

> The FEC is double-tracked from WPB almost all of the way to Miami

I don't know about that... I know a big chunk of it is single-track through Broward. I think the single-track section starts somewhere around Sunrise or Oakland Park.

> From the perspective of a family of four

Remember, there's a lot of market opportunities that don't include families of four... like single twenty/thirtysomethings, or slightly older married couples without kids, who'd be *thrilled* if they could casually and easily head up to Tampa, Orlando, and maybe Jacksonville for weekend trips after work on Friday. Train @ 6, arrive by 9, at hotel by 10, showered & heading out to Ybor/downtown Orlando by 11, partying hard by midnight. As opposed to, "start driving around 6... make it to the county line by 7 if you're lucky... pull into the hotel's parking lot around 10 (if you drive like a bat out of hell and don't stop) or 11, and fall asleep because you're too wrecked to do anything else Tampa probably stands to gain the most with regard to cross-state tourism, because right now Tampa-Miami is a *totally* awful drive to make on a Friday after work.

There's also the market for the same demographic whose parents live in Tampa/Miami/Jacksonville/South Florida. Having fast trains means being able to be on the train at 9am Saturday morning, get picked up and be at Mom & Dad's house in time for lunch, spend the day, head home after dinner, and be back in time to meet your friends in South Beach by midnight. As opposed to, "Horrid drive across the state on Friday night, arrive stressed out, spend the night on the couch because your sibling's extended family and in-laws are occupying the bedroom that's supposed to be yours and you got bumped by virtue of being single, get awakened at dawn on Saturday by crying babies and people in the kitchen, spend the day sleep-deprived & cranky, endure another sleepless night, flee after lunch on Sunday, crash & burn 17 minutes after arriving home, and nevertheless go to work on Monday morning completely wrecked and burnt after a long, stressful, sleepless weekend."

Oh, and lots of potential for travel by retirees and newly-liberated parents whose kids just went away to college. Really, the infamous "family of 4" is probably the worst possible use case for rail. Write it off as a marginal edge case that will only last ~18 years, and the remaining affluent travel-hungry demographics fall neatly into place

From the way they're handling the "new" runway at ATL built over I-285 I doubt an Amtrak or Commuter station in close proximity to a runway would be tolerable to local and TSA authorities. The folks around here come unglued if your vehicle breaks down under our runway. Therefore I don't think people standing around on a platform waiting for a train with baggage in close proximity to an overhead runway or a train with any passenger cars stopped under the runway would be viable. Then there's the parking issue, etc. Nope, just not gonna fly (sic).

You could probably put an FLL Amtrak station a little farther north, in the area just across the northern loop of Terminal Road from the cellphone lot (which is right next to the rental car center and is obscured in satellite photos by the Terminal Road overpass).

After reading the FDOT report, though, it seems obvious that it ain't gonna happen. If/when Amtrak starts using the FEC, it will only be as far south as West Palm. Mr. Norman is right -- existing Amtrak stations from WPB south are sufficient, except for Miami, and that particular problem will be ameliorated with the MIC.

Good afternoon fellas,

I found this thread while searching for information on what's going on on the FEC near my house:



This rails were laid down last weekend at NE 4th AVE between NE 42nd ST and at least 48th ST (as far as I can see, haven't walked over) in 33137. I've never seen anything expect a couple inspection/maintenance vehicles ride this track so I'm hopeful they are going to put it to good use, i.e. passenger cars going to Downtown Miami.

If anyone is interested, here is a video of the machine laying the tracks: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/W ... directlink

Thanks,
Andres

Andres, here is discussion related to the intended use of the rail laying project about which you report:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 54&t=59258

Oh and welcome to our Forum.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Andres, here is discussion related to the intended use of the rail laying project about which you report:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 54&t=59258

Oh and welcome to our Forum.

Thank you sir, sorry I didn't find that thread before.

scaylabs wrote:Good afternoon fellas,

I found this thread while searching for information on what's going on on the FEC near my house:

This rails were laid down last weekend at NE 4th AVE between NE 42nd ST and at least 48th ST (as far as I can see, haven't walked over) in 33137. I've never seen anything expect a couple inspection/maintenance vehicles ride this track so I'm hopeful they are going to put it to good use, i.e. passenger cars going to Downtown Miami.

If anyone is interested, here is a video of the machine laying the tracks: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/W ... directlink

Thanks,
Andres

Great, Andres, thanks for the pic and the video! Noel Weaver had mentioned that the welded rail train was on the downtown lead last weekend, how great to actually see it in action!But as you can probably tell by reading the thread Mr. Norman pointed you to, the new track is intended for freight traffic to and from the port. If/when Amtrak starts using the FEC, it will very likely not be on FEC tracks south of West Palm. (I won't even mention Tri-Rail.)

This Sunshine State News report may lead a reader to believe that "somethings happening":

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/ ... -expansion

Brief passage:

• Long-discussed plans for returning passenger rail service to Florida's East Coast got new life from an Amtrak report that ranks the dormant West Palm Beach-Jacksonville segment as "the most promising initiative for expansion."
  
  Passenger service on the 350-mile coastal stretch was abandoned in 1968. Amtrak trains currently run between Miami and West Palm Beach, then connect with Jacksonville via an inland route through Orlando.
  
  Florida East Coast Railway and local communities have been investigating a return to passenger service for several years, and this week's Amtrak report was hailed as a significant step.

TRAINS Newswire has reported on this story, which of course is drawn from the Performance Improvement Plan that we have discussed at this topic:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 46&t=86553

However, it is pleasing to note that an Amtrak report has been addressed in general circulation media - tax $$$$ at work!!!

Gilbert B Norman wrote:This Sunshine State News report may lead a reader to believe that "somethings happening":

Another news story on the prospects of passenger service returning to the FEC line with additional information: http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/ ... ytona.html

"The state Department of Transportation has set aside $118 million for a passenger line that would run from Jacksonville to Miami with a stop in Daytona Beach, and last week Amtrak released a report strongly in favor of a new coastal route through Volusia and Flagler counties." If there are $118 million in state funds available, that is a major step, but federal funds will be difficult to come by depending on how much more is needed. Perhaps Florida DOT is going after a TIGER grant since there is $527 million available in FY11 funds?

While the Sunshine State News article focuses on running a split Silver Star on the FEC, the plan for the FEC is primarily to start corridor service on it between Jacksonville and Miami. Amtrak will have Horizons available in a few years to start corridor service with. And in a corridor where freezing temperatures won't be a problem.

Below freezing weather with snow and/or freezing rain is not unheard of in Northern Florida. But if the Horizons will be available, bring 'em on!

As usual on Railroad.net, lots of confusion and mis-information here. First, I hi-railed from just north of the former FEC station in downtown Miami all the way to Tequesta, just north of the Jupiter Inlet drawbridge, in 2006 and if there was any double track on the FEC (except for a couple of miles in Ft. Lauderdale) I must have missed it. When FEC single-tracked and installed CTC in the 1960s, they originally left the double track and ABS signals intact from WPB south to Miami. In 1976 I watched a work train remove the second main in Delray Beach and lay out concrete ties for the new single track. There are fairly closely spaced two-mile sidings, but it's now all single track from Little River to WPB, with the exception of FLL and WPB (and double track that starts just south of Little River and goes out to Hialeah).

So the plan has been, since the Warrington years, to run one Amtrak train on the FEC to WPB, back across the Northwood connection, and run on Tri-Rail the rest of the way to Miami.

The Downtown Extension is being upgraded to move traffic to and from the Port of Miami. No one appears to have considered the obvious: build a connection in the NE quadrant of the diamonds at Iris, and run Tri-Rail trains to downtown Miami (where the FEC station site is now a parking lot). Instead they're building a new "Miami Intermodal Center" out at the airport, and there's a branch of the Miami Metro almost completed out to it.

NellieBly wrote:As usual on Railroad.net, lots of confusion and mis-information here.

SAY IT AIN"T SO!

NellieBly wrote:As usual on Railroad.net, lots of confusion and mis-information here. First, I hi-railed from just north of the former FEC station in downtown Miami all the way to Tequesta, just north of the Jupiter Inlet drawbridge, in 2006 and if there was any double track on the FEC (except for a couple of miles in Ft. Lauderdale) I must have missed it. When FEC single-tracked and installed CTC in the 1960s, they originally left the double track and ABS signals intact from WPB south to Miami. In 1976 I watched a work train remove the second main in Delray Beach and lay out concrete ties for the new single track. There are fairly closely spaced two-mile sidings, but it's now all single track from Little River to WPB, with the exception of FLL and WPB (and double track that starts just south of Little River and goes out to Hialeah).

So the plan has been, since the Warrington years, to run one Amtrak train on the FEC to WPB, back across the Northwood connection, and run on Tri-Rail the rest of the way to Miami.

The Downtown Extension is being upgraded to move traffic to and from the Port of Miami. No one appears to have considered the obvious: build a connection in the NE quadrant of the diamonds at Iris, and run Tri-Rail trains to downtown Miami (where the FEC station site is now a parking lot). Instead they're building a new "Miami Intermodal Center" out at the airport, and there's a branch of the Miami Metro almost completed out to it.

What is stated here makes a lot of sense to me. The Downtown Lead is being upgraded in a big way with heavy rail, concrete ties, new crossing protection, lots of rock ballast and signals. It would make much more sense for Amtrak to operate to downtown Miami than to terminate way out in a slum in Hialeah although they have a maintenance facility there that will be needed in years to come as much or more than it is right now. The ROW on the Downtown Lead is wide enough to accomodate more tracks most of the way and while much work would be necessary in order to accomplish the return of passenger service in this area, it is probably a better solution than building a big new station at the airport which will serve the airport but not much else. There is room at IRIS to put in a connection between the two lines in the NE quadrant and this might happen too. The key to all of this is that the FEC is making a tidy profit on their freight operations and they will not tolerate anything that will even remotely interfere with their freight service which can run at anytime of the day or night as the conditions require. Amtrak would not be well served by a station at the Miami Airport but they would be well served by a station downtown and there are at least a couple of options there too.
The next few years could be interesting in South Florida, it all depends.
Noel Weaver