Amtrak 5 incident near Reno NV (CZ California Zephyr)

kman73 wrote: Just saw this article in the LA Times. According to witnesses, the truck driver attempted to stop but it was too late:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 4347.story

K

That doesn't mean anything, he still mighta been a terrorist who had a change of heart.

A terrorist that attacks a train with a empty dumptruck ??? not much of a plot, a car at intersection could have killed more people.
now if it was some kind of propane or a fuel truck I say yes, but no this is not a act of terrorism.
go back and hide before the sky falls....

Jtgshu wrote:another point that was mentioned on the bottom last page by LIRR415 - its important to note that the crossing gates did NOT look damaged in any way, or at least he didn't run through the entire gate, which means that chances are he (the truck driver) wasn't in his lane when he made impact. Of course, that could lead to credibility to him being distracted/and not paying attention or even sleeping, but it also could help the theory that it was intentional. Not that the gate would stop the truck in anyway, but some things are natural reactions, and trying to avoid something in your path is one of them, which the gate would be something in the driver's path, again, if it was intentional - and im not saying it was, im just saying.....

There are a number of photos and videos of the accident scene at the Reno Gazette Journal website rgj.com. The point of impact appears to be on the left side of the road and what is left of the truck cab and first gravel bed were pulled to the left, missing the gate. My guess (pure speculation based on photos) is that the driver at the last second swerved to the left to avoid the gate and the train which was coming from his right. There is no evidence so far that this was anything other than a very bad accident.

The latest update from the RGJ is that there are more bodies on the train, but they have been unable to get into the 2 burnt cars because of structural instability. Sounds like they may have to cut the 2 destroyed Superliners up to get in safely.

I was on board eastbound Amtrak #6 Thursday 6/23 and from my notes our train met #5 approx 3:25PM MT Thursday several miles east of CP Gore. It was chilling when I first read the news online the next day while still on board #6.

My thoughts and prayers to those souls lost and to all effected by this tragedy.

Amtk30

Jtgshu wrote:Yes it does look like an accident, however I don't understand how some folks can dismiss terrorism so quickly? Im not one of those folks who beat the terrorism drum for every little thing, but in this instance, it would be very easy for the driver to match his speed so he would make impact with the train somewhere, as its WIDE open.

One can easily dismiss the possibility of terrorism because of the specifics that we're hearing about the collision. The truck broadsided the train at the 4th passenger carriage, if this were an attack I suspect the engines would have been targeted ( in an attempt to force a derailment ). A wide open road allows the prospect of driver inattention to play a role, especially in a hot desert where your eyes can play tricks on you. A trucker dozing off doing 80, can easily approach a rail crossing, with lowered gates and fail to stop in time. The fact that it appears he was in the opposing lane of travel seems to give more weight to the prospect that the driver of the rig in question was inattentive.

Look, im not taking sides in this, im just saying what COULD be, by looking at the pictures and reports. some folks felt that it couldn't be possible for the timing to be perfect for the truck to hit the train, and I disagree. I also disagree with the fact that if there was a terrorist, why would they automatically target the locomotive? Yes, it could cause a derailment, it happens alot when trains hit big trucks, but also striking the broadside of a train could cause a derail as well, as well as causing damage directly to the passenger compartment, where more people are, compared to the engineer(s) up front.

Well now that the LA times reported that there were witnesses to the driver trying to stop, when it is pretty cut and dry, but before that was known, it would be foolish to dismiss ANYTHING simply because it LOOKED like it was a "simple/common" car/truck vs. train accident.

"good criminals" make their crimes look like something else all the time......

It is well known to US intelligence officials, and such info is not classified, that Al Qaida does not encourage lone wolf terrorists such as has been put forth in this thread. Long distance passenger trains do not present a worthwhile target to them because there is virtually no way to guarantee a large loss of life which is their primary aim. Large urban railroad passenger facilities packed with hundreds, maybe thousands, of people present a better target especially in a coordinated stationary bombing attack on several of them simultaneously in large cities like D.C., New York, Chicago and L.A.

Their aim is to scare the hell out of us by killing a LOT of people all at one time. They won't bother with passenger trains because they know the likelihood of killing more than 50 people per train is extremely remote. Intelligence gathered from Bin Laden's hideout after his most deserved death indicated that they were considering doing so at least three years ago but came to that same realization for those same reasons and the ones I mentioned in a previous post. This also should come as no surprise to some because Homeland Security issued an advisory about that long ago warning they were considering attacking the nation's railroads.

Passenger trains are the safest form of ground transportation there is in terms of deaths per accident. Al Qaida is as much aware of that as we are.

This is not a lack of vigilance, awareness or concern on my part or the part of others in this thread that find the idea of this wreck being an act of terrorism ridiculous and laughable. We follow the axiom of "know thy enemy" and absorb everything we see or hear on "Bin Laden and The Boys". Therefore, we are more educated on the islamist terrorist mindset than the average armchair observer. So, trust us when we tell you that we know what we are talking about.

It now seems that this horrific crash is much worse than initially thought, with quite a few more souls lost than was first reported. I hope that somehow these new reports are wrong, but my thoughts are with all who are involved with or affected by this.

Have our friends on railroad.net who work this run checked in yet and said "I'm ok"???

Condolences and prayers to many families.

As of the 5AM National Public Radio (CDT) newscast on June 26, the death toll is now six with 28 folks missing...

NPR also reports there are skid marks from the truck.

I've ridden 5/6 several times to Reno: US 95 and the SP crossing was done in daylight. It'll take a year, but this is a NTSB report I will read...

John, thanks for asking. I handed the train over to the Reno engineer on Friday morning. It is not a good feeling to know that your fellow colleagues have suffered an incident such as this. We are all in disbelief, and a gut feeling tells me this is nothing more than an incident; not related in any manner to the suspected plots by the others in this forum. When you work on the head end of the train, you seen plenty of inept drivers who fail to pay attention to the crossing lights and horn of an approaching passenger train (assumption being that we are a slow, lumbering freight drag).

Thanks for the thoughts, prayers and kind words.

Now taking wagers on how fast USDOT and the State of Nevada get a flyover bridge built at that location.

Frankly, I believe that ANY highway designated as "US" anything, like the interstates, should have a strict policy of grade crossing elimination so tragedies like this are no longer possible on any major arterial routes. (Besides, if this had been a freight train involved we wouldn't even be having this discussion.)

The cheaper option, seeing as this route will eventually have to have PTC installed, is to mandate that any rail route with passenger trains must also eliminate or bridge all grade crossings. Adding a $5 surcharge onto all Amtrak and/or commuter tickets sold annually ought to generate over $140,000,000.00 a year to pay for it. Call it the "Passenger Rail Safety Enhancement Trust Fund" Solons love to fall all over fancy named legislation like that.

why would rail passengers have to pay to protect themselfs from motorist lacking brains.
let them pay for it with highway or fuel taxes.

slchub, I'm glad you've checked in. I'm sure our community joins you in sharing our thoughts and prayers for those involved and their families in this incident.

Just a quick note; I'm trying not to over-moderate here, really, I'm not.

I appreciate everyone's opinion on the possibility of terrorism in this incident. I'm sure if there was even a whiff of such intent, it would be all over the news. It's a worthwhile topic, but rather than engage in a debate about whether discussion of the possibility of terrorism is appropriate, plausible, etc., let's stick to discussion of the actual incident. I understand a certain level of speculation is appropriate, but at this point, further such discussion on any involvement of terrorism, while worthwhile, is at this point academic.

DutchRailnut wrote:why would rail passengers have to pay to protect themselfs from motorist lacking brains.
let them pay for it with highway or fuel taxes.

I don't necessarily disagree, but whatever gets it done.

Grade crossing elimination is very expensive, and if Amtrak started adding surcharges, they could no longer advertise their prices are the prices you pay, no etras.

Grade crossing elimination is a great goal, but running out and creating new taxes is not really the best idea. For example, there are several grade crossings on US-66 in the California desert. When I go out there, in reality, I might see less than 10 cars a day and 4 of them are prob railfans.

This was really tragic all around but let's not go overboard.