Amtrak 5 incident near Reno NV (CZ California Zephyr)

SooLineRob wrote:

3rdrail wrote:When I originally heard the first report, I myself wondered about whether or not it was terrorist inspired.

With all due respect to Mr Joyce, my first thought was...

I hope our members here at Railroad DOT net that work this train are alright. My condolences to them and the Amtrak family as well as the passengers.

My second thought was...

A heavily laden semi either:

1) Was exceeding the speed limit;

2) Driver was distracted;

3) A mechanical / brake defect;

4) Or was overloaded;

...resulted in insufficient braking distance causing the truck to hit the side of the train. Experience tells me the semi was braking hard at the time of the collision, hitting the train at a relatively slow speed. The train appears to be still on the rail.

I guess we tend to focus on what we know best; 3rdRail thought about sub-human animals doing bad things, and I thought about speeding gravel trucks approaching a grade crossing.

Tandem gravel trucks are common in Nevada, so I too thought about the weight. But from the pictures, the trailers appear to have been empty.

That leaves the likely causes as:
1. Exceeding the speed limit (very likely on this stretch of highway)
2. Distracted driving (drinking coffee, talking on the cell phone, or texting)
3. Poor judgment (from having encountered only slower-moving freights at this crossing)

My personal suspicion is all three. And the driver was probably starting off the day with a full tank of fuel.

Looking at the pictures of the Superliners, I can't imagine the fire. I wonder how much time the passengers had to get out. Was the conductor (or service attendant) killed by the impact or did he/she succumb to the smoke while getting passengers out of the train?

My condolences to the families of those lost in this accident. May God comfort them with His care.

Jersey_Mike wrote:From the photos it appears that the first two Superliners are a total writeoff. These would probably be sleepers or trans-dorms which is a shame seeing as how Amtrak had been making progress on its wreck rebuilds. The gravel truck just missed the relatively expendable Heritage baggage car which sort of sucks and shows that even placing the non-revenue car up front is not a guarantee of it taking one for the team.

Thank god Amtrak has some new bi-level stock on order as well as any repairable Superliners that will come back into service. I can't remember the last time Amtrak suffered an accident with revenue cars getting completely written off so at least its a bit better than 10 years ago when it seemed that Amtrak couldn't repair cars fast enough to keep up with the grade crossing accidents.

In this case you are wrong, 5&6 are running witht he coaches behind the dorm and the Sleepers on the rear, it is the dorm and several coaches that were damamged.

The lost of the Conductor and the critical injuries to the Asst Conductor is causing much heartache among much of the Amtrak family tonight, Especially those on the Pacific division. My thoughts and prayers go out to them, their familes, and their coworkers and friends at this difficult time.

Its ashame that your more worried about the equipment instead of the train crew or passengers. At least 1 crew member is dead and as an amtrak engineer, I feel a certain lose because of this accident.

Seeing as how the casualty list has not been officially released it would be inappropriate to speculate on who exactly has been killed or injured. Damage to the equipment however is apparent from photographs and a summary is useful for persons reading the thread.

It looks as if an explosion took place here, as what's known as "high-order damage" is visible, particularly at the tractor remains which appears largely obliterated. The collision alone would not cause this. However, I'm seeing most of the fire and post-explosion damage high up on and in the train. An explosion for this purpose is "the sudden conversion of potential energy, chemical or mechanical, into kinetic energy with the production and release of gas(es) under pressure." High-order damage involves pulverization, shattering and splintering with debris thrown great distances. I would hazard a guess that something more than just non-flammable diesel fuel in a tractor's tanks with an empty trailer tank was at work here. The tractor's fuel tanks are generally at about top of tire level, loaded presumably with non-flammable diesel fuel (which is combustible). I'd expect to see more fire damage on tractor parts than I saw in these videos if the tractors fuel was the only source. The roof of the trailer's tank has been blown off by the force but I don't see evidence of fire there either. There's a shot of a fender which is white as the driven snow. Like it or not guys, if I were investigating this incident, I'd first try to rule out a bomb, otherwise known as terrorism (which is, I'm sure what precisely the investigators there are doing). From the look of the charred remains of the interiors of those Amtrak cars, it's amazing that there aren't more persons reported killed.

diesel fuel is flammable , the train was doing circa 80 mph , which would create enough wind to make a fireball .
What else could be involved ???

Diesel fuel is not flammable. It's flash point is above 100 degrees F.

Believe me its ignitable . given air or compression , it goes off .
http://youtu.be/NI0JhMDPLhY

After doing some research I came upon conflicting articles. First, from RGJ.com, stating this railroad crossing had no record of any accidents or incidents within the last 20 years:

http://www.rgj.com/article/20110624/NEW ... nav%7Chead


Only to later discover, a nearly similar accident happened here just nine months ago. (Courtesy mynews4.com):

http://www.mynews4.com/story.php?id=27853&n=122


K

Casualties on the train up to four. Witnesses report that the gates were working.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/25/fe ... rak-crash/

Nevada Highway Patrol confirmed Saturday morning that four people were killed in addition to the semi driver. ... Witnesses told authorities that the truck didn't seem to attempt to stop at the crossing when it crashed through the gate.

Christ. I totally wasn't expecting a warning for that... it seemed like the obvious response to http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 56#p945356
But I totally apologize if anyone was offended.

Fox News reports four passengers and the driver dead this morning. As for the cause no one at this point can know for sure. I am guessing and hoping it was a tragic accident, sleep deprivation, uppers, alcohol, heart attack, equipment malfunction, something of that nature. If this guy committed suicide it's much more than that. People determined to take their own lives are sometimes so angry at society that they choose to take some people with them. Everyone reading this knows that suicides sometimes do bizarre things that wind up costing other people their lives. As for the possibility of something more sinister than suicide there is no evidence of that, but to be frank about this, when you think back to 9/11 how many of us, when we first heard the news of a plane going into the Trade Towers thought, terrorist attack. Most of us probably thought something like a Cessna from Teterboro lost power or something like that. Though there is no evidence of terrorism at this point I would not be entirely dismissive of the possibility until we learn more about the driver. What I find most worrisome about this, though, is that an idea has been firmly planted in the mind of someone who aspires to a suicidal terrorist attack that here is a method that has the potential to do great harm. Had this truck been loaded with a substance more deadly than gravel we might be reading about something far worse than four dead, a number of injured, and two wrecked rail cars.

NE2 wrote:Christ. I totally wasn't expecting a warning for that... it seemed like the obvious response to http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 56#p945356
But I totally apologize if anyone was offended.

Thanks for that. It wasn't so much the relevance, but the fact that people here may know some of the people who were killed. We all deal with death differently, and some might not appreciate the dark attempt at lightening the situation. I guess more or less I'm just going for a respectful tone.

My thoughts go out to the folks affected by this horrible incident (notice I didn't say accident, yet) especially the folks who perished, both the passengers and crew member.

The damage is horrific. Two cars basically melted? It sure seems that their "backbone" is broken, as both cars look to be sagging down pretty good. I don't mean just the roof, but the entire car. The fire must have been tremendously hot, and I think everyone is fortunate more folks weren't injured or killed.

this link from cnn.com shows a pic of the wreck before both cars burnt up

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/25/nevada ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Yes it does look like an accident, however I don't understand how some folks can dismiss terrorism so quickly? Im not one of those folks who beat the terrorism drum for every little thing, but in this instance, it would be very easy for the driver to match his speed so he would make impact with the train somewhere, as its WIDE open. You can probalby see the train for miles, as it looks like it from the pictures of a whole lot of nothing.... Also, if it were a terrorism attack, you would figure they would want to make impact with the side of the train, where the people are, NOT the head end. Also, has everyone forgotten the wreck of the Sunset Limited in 1995 in Arizona? Its one train in the middle of nowhere, but it still happened. that only killed one person, this incident has killed 4, well 3 on the train, so far and the driver.

Of course, it could also be a suicide on the drivers part as well, (a la Metrolink) but the results were the same.

The driver didn't hit the gates, so it's not that. I didn't realize the severity of the incident until today.

Must be a tough day for a lot of people, not just the ones lost. I believe the conductor and possibly more employees were killed. One LSA was actually talking to one right before the accident. Must be chilling. My prayers are out to all the victim's family, the Amtrak employees, and to all the [people that had to witness this horror.

Cars damaged/destroyed in the incident: 39013 (TRANS DORM) Nothing but an empty shell now; 34034 (COACH) Similar damage to the car in front of it; 35006 (SNACK-COACH) Not sure what damage other than possible fire damage.

I will hope that this in fact was not an act against American security, as this would add bad publicity to Amtrak and probably cause more security across the board.