All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

Is the new Paoli station going to be built? Didn't hear anything for awhile. They have plans for Middletown, Mount Joy, Parkesburg, Coatsville, Downingtown & Ardmore. Of all of the stations on the line. Paoli needs it more than any other one. When I was going back to Elizabethtown this month from NYC. #653 made a stop there on the number three track. The SEPTA train was at the edge of platform so my train can unload it's passengers. I hope they get the express track built from Paoli to Atglen. Never had any delays from a SEPTA train between Thorndale and Paoli. But I'm sure the trains I was on delayed the commuter trains.

Glen, Downs, Thorn and Caln are utilized more frequently than one might imagine for more than straight route lineups in a given day, between the NS, Amtrak, work trains, Septa and weaving trains around in the event of failures. That said, all four are decrepit as is the middle part of the Harrisburg line between Paoli and Park and were built with single direction current of traffic, ie NORAC rule 251, operations heavily in mind. As the want for convenient, paperless rule 562 and bi-directional operation comes east from new Park in the future you'll see improvements to the logistics of the operation no doubt, as simply replacing Thorn as-is (a junk, 10mph crossover interlocking) is outrageous in that location and rebuilding Downs for the sake of one NS train that may use the crossover during the week is seemingly goofy. I wouldn't be surprised if Caln and Downs are both or at least one is gone as a result. I personally would be interested to see the improvements gained from a (truly passenger useable) third main between Thorn and Paoli to take the fight out of Amtrak and Septa's scheduling and the redesign of the surrounding interlockings as a result.

some changes to the schedule, 671 will depart at 7:53p from NYP and 9:45 pm from Philly (vs 7:15 and 8:55 in the old schedule)..oddly there's half an hour of dwell time which I'd imagine would make it somewhat unattractive for through riders.
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/BlobServe ... ak_W10.pdf

Suburban Station wrote:some changes to the schedule, 671 will depart at 7:53p from NYP and 9:45 pm from Philly (vs 7:15 and 8:55 in the old schedule)..oddly there's half an hour of dwell time which I'd imagine would make it somewhat unattractive for through riders.
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/BlobServe ... ak_W10.pdf

And #44 is eliminated in favor of a daily #42....

Silverliner II wrote:

Suburban Station wrote:some changes to the schedule, 671 will depart at 7:53p from NYP and 9:45 pm from Philly (vs 7:15 and 8:55 in the old schedule)..oddly there's half an hour of dwell time which I'd imagine would make it somewhat unattractive for through riders.
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/BlobServe ... ak_W10.pdf

And #44 is eliminated in favor of a daily #42....

that's probably the opposite, bad for Pittsburgh origin riders, good for through riders

Suburban Station wrote:http://www.wgal.com/r/29763359/detail.html

When was this? I ran train 615 yesterday afternoon and came back on 672 and the HBG seemed normal. What train is this in question that was stranded for 9 hours????

Suburban Station wrote:http://www.wgal.com/r/29763359/detail.html

The time frame for the packed train in question describes train 671, but that would make it only 20 minutes late at Lancaster. With 672 getting into Philly just before 7pm, and all reported normal at that time (and I sure didn't hear of any delays, definitely nothing between Philly and Malvern yesterday)... then whatever happened had to have been with a train on the NYC-PHL leg of the Corridor. And I haven't yet seen any reports of problems over there yesterday either....

Silverliner II wrote:

Suburban Station wrote:http://www.wgal.com/r/29763359/detail.html

The time frame for the packed train in question describes train 671, but that would make it only 20 minutes late at Lancaster. With 672 getting into Philly just before 7pm, and all reported normal at that time (and I sure didn't hear of any delays, definitely nothing between Philly and Malvern yesterday)... then whatever happened had to have been with a train on the NYC-PHL leg of the Corridor. And I haven't yet seen any reports of problems over there yesterday either....

One would think that they would pack emergency supplies on the Keystone trains even though they do not have a cafe car (water, snacks ect...).

Then again, why not just add cafe service to HBG-NYP trains!

Silverliner II wrote:The time frame for the packed train in question describes train 671, but that would make it only 20 minutes late at Lancaster. With 672 getting into Philly just before 7pm, and all reported normal at that time (and I sure didn't hear of any delays, definitely nothing between Philly and Malvern yesterday)... then whatever happened had to have been with a train on the NYC-PHL leg of the Corridor. And I haven't yet seen any reports of problems over there yesterday either....

Checking the Amtrak Status information for Sunday indicates that it must have been 667 that broke down:
for PHL-HAR
665 - arrived HAR 5 minutes early
667 - Service interruption
669 - arrived HAR 3:13 late
671 - arrived HAR 34 minutes late

So did 669 get stuck behind 667 and then picked up the 667 passengers? The wgal article is rather unclear.

They should have café cars on the Keystones. It is a 3:20 to 3:30 trip NYP-HAR. With the increases in ridership for the service, the loss from the café cars should be much reduced from what it might have been. Amtrak is deploying electronic point of sale systems to cut costs for the food and beverage sales which should help a little with cutting losses.

cafe cars are a waste of money. the state would have to pay to maintain the car itself in addition to an amtrak employee to sell God awful food. maybe if they could get wawa on the cars to run it. there are better uses for taxpayer money. if anything, they should concentrate on shortening the trip. eventually when the equipment is replaced, carts could be used.
q: why would the equipment be delayed for so long? isn't there a diesel protect?

afiggatt wrote: Checking the Amtrak Status information for Sunday indicates that it must have been 667 that broke down:
for PHL-HAR
665 - arrived HAR 5 minutes early
667 - Service interruption
669 - arrived HAR 3:13 late
671 - arrived HAR 34 minutes late

So did 669 get stuck behind 667 and then picked up the 667 passengers? The wgal article is rather unclear.

They should have café cars on the Keystones. It is a 3:20 to 3:30 trip NYP-HAR. With the increases in ridership for the service, the loss from the café cars should be much reduced from what it might have been. Amtrak is deploying electronic point of sale systems to cut costs for the food and beverage sales which should help a little with cutting losses.

667 didn't break down. There was wire damage yesterday. Amtrak 87 and NJT 7851(if memory serves) both had pantograph damage. 667 was trapped behind 87 in the affected area. A solid A/C hold was placed. Diesels and electrics were both ordered from all directions along with a transfer train.

Philadelphia moved up the protect set for an "on time" 667 (which wasn't on time, naturally.) When the original 667 and arrived in Philadelphia, it terminated and passengers were transferred to 669 for the new equipment balance, which (as predicted) was a bad idea.

Something is off with this story. If you look at the intermediate times, you'll see that 669 (which had 667 passengers) arrived and departed points 11 minutes late until Middletown. If anything, something happened between Middletown and Harrisburg. Yet the article states there was no service until 9:15pm.

Suburban Station wrote:q: why would the equipment be delayed for so long? isn't there a diesel protect?

I can say for sure a pair of rescue P42's were ordered out of PHL as soon as the problem with 87 became apparent but were called off when the crew on 87 got the train rolling after getting cleared by ET.

if anyone is traveling tomorrow from Philly to lancaster, I noticed that there are still seats available from Paoli while all trains between 10 am and 11 pm are sold out so you could take SEPTA to Paoli and catch the train there, FYI

Could the "SEPTA protect" train set that Amtrak has on "stand-by" in Philly be used for an additional Keystone frequency if the trains get booked up - as it appears they are?

I think Amtrak under-estimated the Keystone Corridor's travel for this Thanksgiving and should have allocated either an additional train set(s) or "Holiday Extra." There are many times even on Fridays, when the 5-car Amfleet Keystone train after 2 p.m. heading westbound just doesn't have enough cars in the consist.

Not to mention the fact that I am sure the Pennsylvanian is booked up, or nearly so, heading on lone passenger train mileage between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh over certain days of the holiday! Another train that often maxes out on capacity during peak/holiday times of the year!