Additional Comets to Septa?

The push-pulls were also considered for trips to the Pocono ski areas during the winter using the RL-1000s as motive power. That idea went about as far as the Harrisburg run!

I thought the original order in 87 was to replace the aging Blueliners. I thought the second batch of bombers, the ones with the doors in the middle, were from Penn DOT. The second order was added onto an existing Metro North order.

dreese_us wrote:I thought the original order in 87 was to replace the aging Blueliners. I thought the second batch of bombers, the ones with the doors in the middle, were from PennDOT. The second order was added onto an existing Metro North order.

That's correct. The second SEPTA order in 1999 was the center door coaches, ordered by PennDOT. They were delivered along with Metro-North's final Shoreliner (center-door) order. These were the only Bombardier Comet-based coaches to be built at Plattsburgh, NY rather than Barre, VT (and the last ever built).

amtrakhogger wrote:

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Back in 1987, why did SEPTA order the AEM7s and coaches in the first place? Was there expected growth?

The word from management when I worked there is that the push/pull sets were purchased in anticipation of service to Harrisburg. But in the end (obviously) it did not happen.

And push-pull was not their original choice. There were plans and even a conceptual drawing for a Silverliner V as early as 1985 (which looked more like a traditional MU, but with a couple twists), and SEPTA's wish was for 50 of the MU's. But budget constraints, and the above-mentioned favorable deal from Bombardier (which was already tooled up for orders by NJT and Metro-North) made the decision to go push-pull an easier solution for SEPTA.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

Clearfield wrote:

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Back in 1987, why did SEPTA order the AEM7s and coaches in the first place? Was there expected growth?

PennDOT paid for them to increase capacity on the Trenton line during reconstruction of I95.

Thank you, Bob. That is correct.

Not quite. Only cars 2550-2559 were the PennDOT-financed cars, built in 2000. The original 35 cars were purely SEPTA and were not only to keep things stable during the Silverliner II and III overhauls, but to allow eventual retirement and replacement for the Blueliners as well.

Silverliner II wrote:

amtrakhogger wrote:
And push-pull was not their original choice. There were plans and even a conceptual drawing for a Silverliner V as early as 1985 (which looked more like a traditional MU, but with a couple twists), and SEPTA's wish was for 50 of the MU's. But budget constraints, and the above-mentioned favorable deal from Bombardier (which was already tooled up for orders by NJT and Metro-North) made the decision to go push-pull an easier solution for SEPTA.

I would have liked to have seen the MR-90 EMUs used on Montreal's Deux-Montagnes Line, become the Silverliner V's. But STM didn't order them till 1992 and delivery of the MR-90s didn't start till 1994. I take it that SEPTA needed cars a lot sooner than that. Metro-North M4s would have been out of the question because they would have required SEPTA to build high-level platforms at all of its stations.

That said, if SEPTA is ever going to order more Comets, used or possibly new, they ought to see how NJT and AMT's new ALP-45DPs work out (well, I hope) and get some of them to pull those Comets in service to Reading and Bethlehem.

Have the AEM-7 and Comet Push Pull Sets ever been used for local service?

Silverliner II wrote:

amtrakhogger wrote:

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Back in 1987, why did SEPTA order the AEM7s and coaches in the first place? Was there expected growth?

The word from management when I worked there is that the push/pull sets were purchased in anticipation of service to Harrisburg. But in the end (obviously) it did not happen.

And push-pull was not their original choice. There were plans and even a conceptual drawing for a Silverliner V as early as 1985 (which looked more like a traditional MU, but with a couple twists), and SEPTA's wish was for 50 of the MU's. But budget constraints, and the above-mentioned favorable deal from Bombardier (which was already tooled up for orders by NJT and Metro-North) made the decision to go push-pull an easier solution for SEPTA.

If SEPTA *did* go forward with their plans for Silverliner V's in 1985, I often wonder who would've built them. I believe Budd was still in business back in the mid 1980's.

Budd/TransitAmerica was on the ropes, by then. They stopped taking new orders by 1985 and only focused on completing existing orders (CTA 2600s and the LIRR M-3s). CTA 3200 was the last car out of Red Lion in April 1987. Pullman was gone by 1982.

So I'd would imagine Nippon Sharyo, which had delivered the NICTD/South Shore cars in 1982 or Kawasaki (fresh off their SEPTA LRV and B-IV successes). Bombardier was still cutting their teeth with the NYCT R62As at this point.

askclifford wrote:Have the AEM-7 and Comet Push Pull Sets ever been used for local service?

Besides the occasional emergency situation when they ran local to fill in for cancelled trains ahead or a disabled train, yes. During SEPTA City Transit strikes, the push-pulls have been pressed into service for extra trips to Fox Chase, and/or Chestnut Hill East or West at times before their regular afternoon runs or extra trips after their normal morning runs.

Silverliner II wrote:

askclifford wrote:Have the AEM-7 and Comet Push Pull Sets ever been used for local service?

Besides the occasional emergency situation when they ran local to fill in for cancelled trains ahead or a disabled train, yes. During SEPTA City Transit strikes, the push-pulls have been pressed into service for extra trips to Fox Chase, and/or Chestnut Hill East or West at times before their regular afternoon runs or extra trips after their normal morning runs.

And how have they performed?

askclifford wrote:

Silverliner II wrote:

askclifford wrote:Have the AEM-7 and Comet Push Pull Sets ever been used for local service?

Besides the occasional emergency situation when they ran local to fill in for cancelled trains ahead or a disabled train, yes. During SEPTA City Transit strikes, the push-pulls have been pressed into service for extra trips to Fox Chase, and/or Chestnut Hill East or West at times before their regular afternoon runs or extra trips after their normal morning runs.

And how have they performed?

I'd say not that well, do you know how long it takes a full length set to reach operating speeds and then the way stations are laid out you'd no sooner have to slow the thing right down hence why their used mostly on express runs becuase they can't handle a EMU based short acel short braking time schedule.

askclifford wrote:

Silverliner II wrote:

askclifford wrote:Have the AEM-7 and Comet Push Pull Sets ever been used for local service?

Besides the occasional emergency situation when they ran local to fill in for cancelled trains ahead or a disabled train, yes. During SEPTA City Transit strikes, the push-pulls have been pressed into service for extra trips to Fox Chase, and/or Chestnut Hill East or West at times before their regular afternoon runs or extra trips after their normal morning runs.

And how have they performed?

Slowly is the word. You couldn't make it up to track speed with them between the stops on the Chestnut Hill East or Fox Chase lines since you would be slowing down for the next stop before even getting 2/3 of the way to track speed. I got to ride the Fox Chase diesel train during the 1992 Railworks season and the West Trenton and Lansdale diesel trains several times during the 1993 Railworks season, and those were only slightly better. Didn't make it to 70 between stops on the West Trenton, but that's to be expected with diesel acceleration...

Silverliner II wrote:I got to ride the Fox Chase diesel train during the 1992 Railworks season and the West Trenton and Lansdale diesel trains several times during the 1993 Railworks season, and those were only slightly better. Didn't make it to 70 between stops on the West Trenton, but that's to be expected with diesel acceleration...

I didn't realize that they used diesels during Railworks. Was it just a shuttle run like the old Newtown "High Speed" Line (yeah, high speed in a Budd Car,right... never understood why SEPTA had the audacity to call it a High Speed line)?

Speaking of push/pulls does anyone know if SEPTA still has that ALP-44M that they got as a "peace offering" for late delivery of the replacements to the Norristown Brill Bullit cars? Personally, I've never seen it.

http://www.philadelphiatransitvehicles. ... _2308b.jpg

BuddCarToBethlehem wrote:

Silverliner II wrote:I got to ride the Fox Chase diesel train during the 1992 Railworks season and the West Trenton and Lansdale diesel trains several times during the 1993 Railworks season, and those were only slightly better. Didn't make it to 70 between stops on the West Trenton, but that's to be expected with diesel acceleration...

I didn't realize that they used diesels during Railworks. Was it just a shuttle run like the old Newtown "High Speed" Line (yeah, high speed in a Budd Car,right... never understood why SEPTA had the audacity to call it a High Speed line)?

Speaking of push/pulls does anyone know if SEPTA still has that ALP-44M that they got as a "peace offering" for late delivery of the replacements to the Norristown Brill Bullit cars? Personally, I've never seen it.

http://www.philadelphiatransitvehicles. ... _2308b.jpg

Yep. In 1992, during the last few weeks of Railworks that year, they used both RL1's and a 4-car push-pull set for diesel service from Fox Chase to 30th Street, operating via the Conrail Trenton Line from Newtown Junction to Zoo via switches since removed from both locations. Ridership was abysmal on that direct train, due to only 3 weeks or so left in the season and no advance mention of the service, since Fox Chase trains had been totally suspended for the duration.

In 1993, SEPTA borrowed three soon-to-be-retired U34CH diesels from NJ Transit. Two units handled a diesel train from West Trenton to 30th Street and the other ran a Lansdale-30th Street diesel train. Both made all stops on their respective routes to Fern Rock, and then went via the above-mentioned Conrail routing to 30th Street. The third U-boat was used for work trains. SEPTA sent an AEM-7 up to NJ Transit for their use in trade for the duration.

And yes, they still have the ALP44.... 2308. It has been out there quite often, specially since they got the Comet set....