2015 Papal visit

I was just thinking this earlier....since there will be alot of people in the city and taking SEPTA all of SEPTA'S Regional Rail fleet will be in motion (Im assuming with the push-pull sets be used ?) they would make sense to have in service...7 cars bombers .....and also i was thinking would NJT possibly lease some Arrows for SEPTA extra service for that weekend. ? That would seem like a smart idea in my book....but would NJT ENGINEERS HAVE TO OPERATE THEM ?...i really dont want SEPTA to have a NJTRANSIT "SUPERBOWL MELTDOWN" All eyes is on Philly & SEPTA like how the New Jersey was the center of attention.

sammy2009 wrote:I was just thinking this earlier....since there will be alot of people in the city and taking SEPTA all of SEPTA'S Regional Rail fleet will be in motion (Im assuming with the push-pull sets be used ?) they would make sense to have in service...7 cars bombers .....and also i was thinking would NJT possibly lease some Arrows for SEPTA extra service for that weekend. ? That would seem like a smart idea in my book....but would NJT ENGINEERS HAVE TO OPERATE THEM ?...i really dont want SEPTA to have a NJTRANSIT "SUPERBOWL MELTDOWN" All eyes is on Philly & SEPTA like how the New Jersey was the center of attention.

Good idea Sammy.

But SEPTA operates on a strict operating budget. Where do you take money away from rail operations in the fiscal year to pay for leasing NJT Arrow cars.

Do the NJT cars work on the Reading side of the phase break?

The cars look similar to a Silverliner, but the components are different. This means operating crews, mechanics, and electricians all need technical training before they can put their hands on the equipment.

This isn't like the 60's when everybody bought passenger equipment off the shelf with standard components.

This is an assumption, but the Federal law states engineers and conductors can only work 6 days per week. So that means SEPTA can only work with half of their normal weekday staff on Saturday and Sunday. If you could procure the extra equipment from NJT, who is going to run it?

As I stated before, if a typical weekday on regional rail transports 150,000 people from the suburbs to the city, than Regional Rail (at absolute best) can handle 7% of Pope visitors for the parade and Sunday mass (assuming they were fully staffed with train crews).

Short of running Duck Boats up the Schuylkill River and Ferry Boat service across the Delaware, people have to get creative to find a way into the city to see Pope Francis.

There will be GRIDLOCK Sunday evening as everyone departs the city at once to go home Sunday night, after they spent all day funneling into the city. Kinda like New Years Eve in Times Square. I'm betting the Schuylkill Expressway or Atlantic City Expressway will experience some type of accident gridlock Sunday that will set a Guinness Book world record.

You can only put 5 gallons of $h!t in a 5 gallon bucket.

T&E can work a 7th consecutive day in service, it's just that they go off duty for 72 hours following that day. Theoretical, yes ... Sustainable, no ... One Time Use (and screw service the week after), plausable. NJT wanted to get a waiver for this for the Superbowl last year and was denied, it would seem to fit that a waiver request wouldn't pan out. Operationally, as long as you had an Engineer and a Conductor you could run the service, and non-HOS employees controlling access to the platform and validating tickets within the temporary 'fare-control'.

Since the quantity of SEPTA Engineers is the bottleneck, running consists with just an E & C, you would also have an excess of qualified pilot conductors. There is a possibility of leasing equipment, as well as T&E crews from neighboring systems. Controlling ridership through advance purchasing, and collecting fare money weeks-months in advance can work to figure out a budget and service pattern, where leased equipment may transverse certain lines of the system.

nomis wrote:T&E can work a 7th consecutive day in service, it's just that they go off duty for 72 hours following that day. Theoretical, yes ... Sustainable, no ... One Time Use (and screw service the week after), plausable. NJT wanted to get a waiver for this for the Superbowl last year and was denied, it would seem to fit that a waiver request wouldn't pan out. Operationally, as long as you had an Engineer and a Conductor you could run the service, and non-HOS employees controlling access to the platform and validating tickets within the temporary 'fare-control'.

Since the quantity of SEPTA Engineers is the bottleneck, running consists with just an E & C, you would also have an excess of qualified pilot conductors. There is a possibility of leasing equipment, as well as T&E crews from neighboring systems. Controlling ridership through advance purchasing, and collecting fare money weeks-months in advance can work to figure out a budget and service pattern, where leased equipment may transverse certain lines of the system.

if they're bringing other crews, wouldn't they have to be certified to run on SEPTA?

That's why you have the "spare" conductors that are qualified, work with the leased equipment and they become pilots for the leased equipment crews' that are on foreign Septa territory. It's probable that MARC and NJT crews, for instance, have their qualifications to ZOO and PHIL respectively, but need a pilot to get to 30th St Upper - CCCT - Reading side of the system.


Without being qualified, how else you end up with a Keystone at Cwnyed.

nomis wrote:That's why you have the "spare" conductors that are qualified, work with the leased equipment and they become pilots for the leased equipment crews' that are on foreign Septa territory. It's probable that MARC and NJT crews, for instance, have their qualifications to ZOO and PHIL respectively, but need a pilot to get to 30th St Upper - CCCT - Reading side of the system.


Without being qualified, how else you end up with a Keystone at Cwnyed.

oh wow I'm still wondering how that Keystone ended up there...

MARC and NJT crews qualified into Philly would probably be qualified to 30th Street Lower, which should be fine as a terminal location for them.

For that matter, how much of a bottleneck will the engineers really be? Can it be gotten around on those (few) lines with more than one station open, by platforming the front of a 10-car train at one station and the back of the train at the next station? Doesn't work if 30th Street Upper is the unloading/loading point, but it should work fine at Suburban and Jefferson (or 30th Lower). Again, no help to CHW, Fox Chase, Norristown, Warminster, or Woodbourne passengers, but every little bit helps.

Just a question about peak "crush load" capacity Though the trains were very crowded and had to skip stations during the Phillies parade and there were delays, the system did move a whole lot of people. I agree that the schedules should be adjusted and some stops without parking skipped but the current plan is too extreme. Yes the Broad Street subway was crowded and there were problems but again Septa moved a lot of people

There is more capacity on Septa, especially on the subway and el. They trains were full but not at crush load. Take a look at the 4 or 5 on the Lexington line or the F train during the morning rush. That's crowded. I don't think cutting stations on the subway or el helps move people. Running the express trains and A/B el service throughout the weekend makes more sense. Delays and crowds are better than not having access to a station at all.

Bettertransitphilly wrote:Just a question about peak "crush load" capacity Though the trains were very crowded and had to skip stations during the Phillies parade and there were delays, the system did move a whole lot of people. I agree that the schedules should be adjusted and some stops without parking skipped but the current plan is too extreme. Yes the Broad Street subway was crowded and there were problems but again Septa moved a lot of people

There is more capacity on Septa, especially on the subway and el. They trains were full but not at crush load. Take a look at the 4 or 5 on the Lexington line or the F train during the morning rush. That's crowded. I don't think cutting stations on the subway or el helps move people. Running the express trains and A/B el service throughout the weekend makes more sense. Delays and crowds are better than not having access to a station at all.

You really can't blame SEPTA for this as the government had a hand in it on who can go in the city and who can't during the weekend when the Pope comes

Is DC or NY going through similar measures with the shuddering of their stations during the papal visit?

bikentransit wrote:Is DC or NY going through similar measures with the shuddering of their stations during the papal visit?

For realz! SEPTA is so wrong ! Think about it. "Shuddering" is NOT what Jesus would do!

bikentransit wrote:Is DC or NY going through similar measures with the shuddering of their stations during the papal visit?

Neither DC nor NY will have a Papal mass, so your question is irrelevant. When the last Pope held masses in DC and NYC, they were in attendance-restricted sports venues, so the effect was significantly lower.

nickrapak wrote:

bikentransit wrote:Is DC or NY going through similar measures with the shuddering of their stations during the papal visit?

Neither DC nor NY will have a Papal mass, so your question is irrelevant. When the last Pope held masses in DC and NYC, they were in attendance-restricted sports venues, so the effect was significantly lower.

NRP and Everyone:

NYC and Washington both WILL have specific Papal masses during the Papal Visit at these venues:

The Washington Mass will be held at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception at 4:15 PM
on Wednesday September 23rd - the nearest Metro station is Brookland on the Red Line to Silver Spring
and Glenmont...

The New York City Mass will be held at Madison Square Garden at 6 PM on Friday September 25th...
I expect security to be as tight as what was used during the 2004 Republican Convention which was
also held at MSG and may affect travelers going to Philadelphia to attend events coinciding with the
WMOF and Papal Visit on the weekend of September 26 and 27...

http://www.popefrancisvisit.com/officia ... isit-2015/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MACTRAXX

the sarge wrote:

bikentransit wrote:Is DC or NY going through similar measures with the shuddering of their stations during the papal visit?

For realz! SEPTA is so wrong ! Think about it. "Shuddering" is NOT what Jesus would do!

I shudder to think what would happen if New York shuttered its stations.

SEPTA to add Levittown station for the Papal Visit
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2015/07/0 ... e-transit/

According to a report yesterday in the Bucks County Courier Times, the Levittown-Tullytown Station on SEPTA’s Trenton regional rail line was added to the list of boarding locations in Bucks and Montgomery Counties that are expected to serve around 70,000 visitors to the WMOF Congress and the Papal visit on September 27th.