VRE expansion?

I went o nthe VRE Website and I noticed that it only has two lines. One of which goes as far South as Freddericksburg,VA. Do you know how long it takes to get from one end of theri line(Union Station) the the other and will they expand further South or West? It looks liek a great railroad but quite small and few equipment. I certaintly hope they'll get mroe equipment and extend theri service.

Hopefully they'll be as big or even bigger then MARC. Looking at their equipment roster and their routes I thought North Carolina and MBTA was pretty small.

The train schedules are on the VRE site. It takes around 1 1/2 hrs from Fredericksburg to Union station. They aren't going to go south of Fredericksburg any time soon. It's just talk right now. What they want to do is add a 3rd rail from Fredericksburg to Alexandria, VA for only their trains, to avoid delays from freight trains.

Thanks for the reply I was hearing talks that they were going to go further South or go to Richmond. How far off is it from Union Station by train and do you think it's possible?

With Amtrak having 7/8 each way each day, may be a problem justifying VRE to Richmond. Running time SB about 2+ hrs now NB about 2:15-2:30. I'm sure that could be improved if third track.

When do you think they could add that other track? Whne that track is installed would VRE be explorign the idea of going into Richmond? There are quite a few palces esp out in California where both a commuter railroad like Coaster or even Metro Link serves the same destiantion as Amtrak does.

The Manassas Line is awfully short. THat should probobly be extended to Culpepper if there are commuters farther out than Manassas.

NJTRailfan wrote:Thanks for the reply I was hearing talks that they were going to go further South or go to Richmond. How far off is it from Union Station by train and do you think it's possible?

I don't know the rail distance, but the driving distance between DC and Richmond is about 125 miles. That is about the same distance as the run in the other direction ( North) between DC and Philly.---- A little far for a commuter operation, though certainly not impossible.

Also, keep in mind that both VRE and MARC are essentially running local, DC area service over longer rail routes ( mostly over CSX, and Amtrak rails-- the Amtrak rails being the electrified rails of the NEC between DC and Perryville, MD-- the Penn Line,---- though I understand that MARC often uses Diesels on this line as well as on its other two lines which use CSX rails), and neither line, at present, runs on its own rails, or on trackage in areas other than that through which CSX and Amtrak run.

I've read that the VRE has serious plans to extend the Manassas line at least three stations further, as they get money. Does the track go all the way to Culpeper?

I think I saw in a VRE PDF sometime that they have medium to long term plans to re-electrify / electrify the line south to Fredericksburg. This would make a massive difference in the running time, I'd expect. It wouldn't be worth doing until there was at least twice as much traffic, including decent counter-rush-hour service. That day may not be far distant, however.

The track is owned by the Norfolk Southern and yes it goes "all the way" to Culpeper, in fact it goes to Atlanta New Orleans. Now if there is capacity for more commuter trains, well thats another story.

krtaylor wrote:I've read that the VRE has serious plans to extend the Manassas line at least three stations further, as they get money. Does the track go all the way to Culpeper?

I think I saw in a VRE PDF sometime that they have medium to long term plans to re-electrify / electrify the line south to Fredericksburg. This would make a massive difference in the running time, I'd expect. It wouldn't be worth doing until there was at least twice as much traffic, including decent counter-rush-hour service. That day may not be far distant, however.

Just off the top of my head, I know that the Commonwealth of Va. has had ambitious plans for expansion of rail service between DC and Richmond, and further south, for some time, that would eventually make the RF&P a high-speed rail route. Finding the money, though...who knows....

I read in the paper the other day that the new governor of VA was elected promising to spend loads of money on transport, including particularly commuter rail and Metro. VRE seems to take it for granted that they will be placing an order for 50 additional new traincars. Some of these are to replace old ones, maybe lengthen trains, but I'd think that was a good sign.

First, the Manassas line.
The Manassas line currently only runs to the Broad Run/Airport station in Manassas. There is A LOT of pressure being put on VRE by land developers to extend that line to Haymarket. VRE is serious about this idea, they want to see it too. VRE is looking at several extension plans but I have not heard anything more solid than the Haymarket extension.

The Sounder trains that currently run on the Manassas line belong to Sound Transportation of Seattle, WA; and the lease expired in July 2006. Negotiations to keep them have failed and Sounder has given VRE until the end of 2006 to return one of the units and until the end of 2007 to return the other. VRE was counting on the purchase of 50 new train cars to modernize its cosists on both lines BUT... although the funding was approved by the Federal Government, County Governments fom concerned counties, and the Commonwealth of Virginia, transportation funding for this area was reduced in the current state budget at the last minute, leaving a 17 million dollar shortfall. While nobody has said that this breaks the 50 car purchase deal, VRE is concerned and this will have a ripple effect on how soon expansion can be approved.

Now regarding the Fredericksburg line...
It is important to understand that while the tracks between Manassas and Alexandria are owned and operated by Norfolk Southern, the tracks between Fredericksburg and Alexandria, and on up to Union Station, are owned and operated by CSX. CSX is (a) kind of a pain to work with, (b) always causing delays, and (c) in the middle of a major tie replacement project between Alexandria (AF) and Fredericksburg. Threfore it can be assumed that there will be no near-term expansions on that line; especially as Amtrak already serves points south along the same track.

A couple of other things to understand in sizing up the whole situation:

The Virginia Railway Express (VRE) is a transportation partnership of the Northern Virginia Transportation Commission (NVTC) and the Potomac and Rappahannock Transportation Commission (PRTC). However, their operators, conductors, and most of their maintenance employees are Amtrak personnel. That means not only lease negotiations with two separate railroads, but cross-railroad labor negotiations. It also means that Amtrak's woes are, in part, VRE's woes. However, the fact that Amtrack supports the local commuter infrastructure is points in favor of Amtrak's funding and survivability.

VRE is building two state-of-the-art maintenance facilities and will soon be transitioning train maintenance off of Amtrak's burden. That's where the money is being spent right now and it makes sense for future VRE expansion capabilities.

For further details, e-mail [email protected] or surf the VRE website at http://www.vre.org. (Do the website anyway. This is how trains SHOULD operate!)

Interesting that, while CSX owns the Fredericksburg line, I recall seeing on official VRE long-term plans, the idea of extending the NEC electrification down to Richmond so they could run higher speed and more intensive commuter rail service. At least a little bit of it once was, and it would surely make the service even more attractive. Dunno how that'd work with CSX though.

matthewsaggie wrote:The track is owned by the Norfolk Southern and yes it goes "all the way" to Culpeper, in fact it goes to Atlanta New Orleans. Now if there is capacity for more commuter trains, well thats another story.

There is a rapidly growing number of "Washingtonians" commuting from the Culpeper area these days (they're crazy, but they're a large, growing group). My boss, in fact, keeps a weekend home in Sperryville, which is not far from Culpeper, and he's made no bones about the fact that he would commute regularly from there if VRE or the fabled Trans Dominion Express started up service from CLP (the Crescent is just too darn pricey and not reliable enough). He's not the only one. Culpeper (and especially Sperryville) is starting to more and more represent a very affluent contingent of Virginians who have connections to DC.

Given that my folks live down there as well, if a train showed up, I'd seriously consider moving there myself. My hope has always been that the TDX would run Lynchburg-Charlottesville-Orange-Culpeper and then express to Alexandria, L'enfant plaza, and Union Station, making the trip in about an hour and fifteen minutes once it left CLP. Guess one can dream...
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One of my bosses lives in Culpeper. He's a sales guy so works independently, but it can be ... difficult ... to get him into the city. I'd love to see a train out there, make that situation easier!