B6sb No. 5244 / B-8 No. 828

[Richard Glueck]

The little B6sb that survived as the last of the great standard fleet until when? 1960? What became of her? Was any attempt made to preserve her? Her builder's oval was dispalyed in company headquarters for years, but when the Penn Central sank, it was auctioned off with thousands of heirlooms only the faithful would recognize. Is there anything about this locomotive we should know but perhaps don't?

Seems like a shame that she was just sent off for scrap.

[Richard Glueck]

Anyone have pictures of the remaining B6sa, #60, that is displayed near Wilmington, Delaware, back when she was operating?

[Aa3rt]

Richard-I've been intrigued with this question since you posed it but haven't replied until now. I have a set of "American Heritage" cards of railroad subjects that I received as a young man (about 40 years ago, give or take a few) and one of those cards shows the PRR # 5244 while in service on the Union Transportation in central New Jersey. I don't know the ultimate disposition of the locomotive (although, I do believe that it was scrapped) but here are a few links that may prove of interest:

A write-up on the Union Transportation Company:

http://kc.pennsyrr.com/guide/pemberton.html

And a link to purchase the PRR Keystone Magazine (# 31-4, Winter 1998) with an article titled "The Last Gasp-Union Transportation's B6sb #5244".

http://www.club-e-stores.com/store/product7.html

[Richard Glueck]

Thank you for the reply and the URL's. Yes, I know she was cut up, which is what bothers me so much! You might think that the last active steam loco, and a small one at that, from the great steam fleet would have been placed in a concourse, building, museum, or other; but no! They took her plates, headlight, and bell from her and butcher the rest. I guess one would have to have been a PRR executive at the time. I am told that the move to Dieselize was fomented in the executive circles as a means to modernize; that is, to appear far more modern than the PRR and it's subsidiaries really were. On the LIRR, the fleet of turscan red coaches was repainted in a variety of grey schemes, before settling on Goodfellow's scheme of grey and orange.
I suppose we are indeed fortunate to have had the Northumberland Collection saved at all! Why were steam locos the very essence of energy, strength and power for decades, then scorned and obliviated in a what amounts to a single decade?
Anyway, I have a similar set of those cards with the same image of the little B6sb. Thank you for responding. Does anyone else have more to offer?
5244's plates where sold in the Penn Central auction years later. God knows where they are today.

[Schuylkill Valley]

Well there really is another class B-6sb still around its located on the bottom of a quarrie in south east Pa. near the town of Birdsboro,Pa. in the drought of 1999 I hiked back to the quarrie and saw it with my own eyes .
The top of the cab was sitting out of the water which is most of the time 30` over it . I could see the cab and back of the slanted tender with the letterning Pennsylvania . I`ll have to look back in my notes for the number of this locomotive . there were other steamers there too. Two tank engines and one steam powerd crane .

Leonard

[Richard Glueck]

Leonard, a B6sb? Are you sure it isn't another slant-back tender? If this discovery is verifiable (not that I doubt your character in anyway), this would be reason enough to drain any said quarry and recover the locomotives. I, for one, would love to have as much information as to location, numbers, and dates. Any photos? Such a witnessed claim requires immediate consideration.

[Schuylkill Valley]

The quarrie is located in Monocacy, Pa. off Red Corner Rd. and was owned by Dyers Quarries Inc. now owned by the State of Pa.

The No. 828 and its a 0-6-0 with slanted tender with Pennsylvania on tender . When I was there in 1999 I saw just the top of the locomotive sticking out of the water , I saw that stack which has a cover on it and the top of the cab down to the No. 828 . I also saw the slanted tender with a railing on one side of the tender with stepts .

it is cupled to a rotted out box car and two coal hoppers . Theres two tank steam locomotives there as well and a steam crane with croller tracks .

I was told about this locomotive by a friend named Art Acker of Reading age now 82 then he was in his early 70`s . He was an employee of the PRR Schuylkill Div. out of Reading HQ`s. He saw lots and lots of paper work . He and three others put togeather the Reading Ironhorse Rambles of the 1960`s Him and Ray Hamilton , George Gerhart and Edy Franks .

I took video of the quarrie in 1998 one year before I was there in 99 because of the great 99 drought . before in 98 the quarrie was filled with about 30 to 50 feet of water . then in 99 the quarrie was only about 20 feet filled in some places .

I had a friend named the late Dan Calvaresi, Jr. which was a Conrail MOW forman , he contacted the state park commission about the quarrie . He and four people took a walk back to the quarrie in 2000 , the two men were Birdsboro Fire Dept. divers . They dove in and comfermed that the locomotive was there indeed. The one man took a hammer with him , he hit the side of the engine and he said it was very sound for being in all that water that long of time.

I was talking to an older women which lives about 175 yards from the quarrie , she remberd them using the locomotive up till the late 50`s .

Hope that helps,
Len.

[Schuylkill Valley]

No. 5044 in my book on PRR locomotive numbers tells me that 5044 was a H-1 and A-4 not a B-6sb .

Keystone Steam & Electeic by William D. Edson copyright 1974

Len.

[Schuylkill Valley]

I was doing some Museum research tonight on our website at the Railroad museum of Pennsylvania , it seems we have a Juniata built 1916 B-6sb 0-6-0 # 1670 a gift from Penn Central Co. on December 14, 1979.

Historical infomation for B-6sb No. 1670 Built March 1916 by Juniata Shops Builders No. 3042 Drop from roster Oct. 1957 - Displayed

Historical infomation on B-6sb No. 5244 Built Feb. 1916 by Juniata Shops Builders No. 3033 Scraped June 1954.

The number 5244 was also a E-2a 4-4-2

Leonard

[Richard Glueck]

Len: 5244 was indeed, the last PRR steamer to operate. She was leased to Union Transportation of Egypt, NJ, lasting until 1959 or 60. While you are researching, check out that #828 in the quarry. See if she is indeed a B6sb or another class. Furthermore, find out if she was leased or abandoned in place. The Museum would no doubt seek funds to return her to the surface for evaluation or display. Who has title to her at this time? IF this is in fact, a B6sb of the PRR, it is priceless and requires immediate attention. If the data doesn't check out, she could be a generic 0-6-0 which was simply abandoned as the pit closed. At anyrate, I would certainly advise you pursue this locomotive. Better still, send me a copy of the video so I can evaluate the images and get something going to reclaim her.

[Schuylkill Valley]

The locomotive in the old Dyers quarry is number 750 .
750 was built by Juniata Shops in December 1913 Builders No. 2761 Drop from roster in Sept. 1946 , sold to Dyers Quarry Inc. in 1947 for the some of $4400.00 .

I was told by the older women that she rembers that steam locomotive moving cars up and down the line up untill 1960 when they closed the quarry . She said when the pumps would be running to keep the water out of the quarry it would make a loud sound . Oct. 1960 was the last time she heard the pumps working . soon after the pumps stop the water coved the whole quarry .

The State of Pennsylvania owns the quarry .

Where are you from?

Len.

[Richard Glueck]

I have sent private correspondence to you. Check the tool bar above to click on your awaiting messages.
I am also posting some of your information on the LIRR forum page.

[Flying Scotsman]

I was doing some Museum research tonight on our website at the Railroad museum of Pennsylvania , it seems we have a Juniata built 1916 B-6sb 0-6-0 # 1670 a gift from Penn Central Co. on December 14, 1979.

Historical infomation on B-6sb No. 5244 Built Feb. 1916 by Juniata Shops Builders No. 3033 Scraped June 1954.

Two clarifications in order:
1) 1670 and her Museum mates were not exactly "donated" to the Museum by Penn Central. That might be the nice way of phrasing it to the public, but you will find that title to the equipment was transferred to the Commonwealth in partial settlement of back taxes owed by PC to the state. I recall that they had a nightmare of a time assessing the dollar value of the PRR collection assets, and at the time settled on an approximate valuation of perhaps $10 million of the maybe $50 million owed by PC at the time. I'm not sure whether or not a lien was ever technically placed on the collection, but I'm sure that PC quickly acceded to the transfer as a matter of expediency and convenience.

2) Since there are numerous photographs in books of 5244 in service on the Union Transportation Co. in New Jersey as late as 1959 or 1960, your source saying "scrapped" is in obvious error. It's possible that the loco may have been mis-recorded on company records, or that it was indeed sold for scrap but then either switched for another B6sb or re-sold by the scrapper. If your source of this info was the Edson roster book, I'm hardly surprised, as there are reportedly many inaccuracies in the Edson steam roster books.

[Schuylkill Valley]

Hi all,
So you know I did some editting to a few posts about this locomotive in the quarry , I also reposted the top name of the thread to include B-8 No.828 which as been found out to be the number of the locomotive in the quarry. Its a class B-8 No. 828 sold to J. T. Dyer Quarry Inc. in 1939 from the PRR. To replace the locomotive No. 1187 that the PRR bought back for the 1940`s World Fair in New York.

I thought you should know the reason to the editting, I feel we all are out here to have fun. That`s the main reason I don`t do much editting because your such good people, you don`t bicker about things. and I thank you for that .

Every one have a goodone.

Leonard

[Schuylkill Valley]

The letter that I`m writing to oftain permission for divers to dive the quarry is almost done. I`m also sending a copy of the video I took in 1996 to Ryan in Ohio . I`m hoping to get in the mail sometime yet this week.

Len.