NJT P40's

[EM2000]

Locomotive Engineer's do not "qualify" on Locomotive types.

[ApproachMedium]

Locomotive Engineer's do not "qualify" on Locomotive types.

On NJ Transit, they do.

[srock1028]

Locomotive Engineer's do not "qualify" on Locomotive types.

On NJ Transit, they do.

Thank You Mr. Approach.

[ApproachMedium]

You are welcome. I remember when I got qualified on the P40.

[EM2000]

Again, there is no such "Locomotive Qualification", the wording is incorrect. Whatever NJT does in house is another story (training familiarization), but not a "qualification", like how Pilot's hold type ratings on their license for aircraft types. Legally, a Locomotive, is a Locomotive.

[ApproachMedium]

Well say what you want. I worked there and i work at amtrak now. Its called gettig qualified on that piece of equipment. Freight railroads and airplanes are a whole different world from passenger. Passenger engines esp njts stuff is constantly coming out with new gizmos and locations for safety cutouts etc. So anytime a new engine is introduced engineers will attend a class and take a qualifying run with a road forman to make sure they are familiar and comfortable with operating the locomotive. Its called being qualified. I dont care what it is legally, whats inside that carbody is very different engine to eng esp electrics. If you tried to give one of these passenger guys an SD70ACe they might be able to do something with it since its not too complicated. Try to give a freight guy an ALP45 DP and expsct them to change modes and know pantographs? I dont think so.

[EM2000]

I'm not saying what I want, I'm saying how it is. You can work at any RR in the country and understand there is no such thing as a "Locomotive qualification". Familiarization training on equipment types have no bearing on your license from running one to the other, and the FRA does not require it. It's all RR specific, in house policy. Do you think a Class 1 Engineer is going to refuse a foreign leader he has never seen before due to the fact he's not "qualified"? (Foreign power, and out right Locomotive types are common). And no, the two are not completely different worlds at all. Varying locations for familiar items can be addressed in notices, or if the RR chooses, training familiarization, as you said. Some RR's offer none, some a pamphlet, and others, such as yours, offer classes, and even a road test. But it remains that these are not official qualifications that hold bearing on your Engineer's license, like how a true "qualification" (type rating) does on a Pilot's license. If for some reason your scenario ever came to reality, the freight Engineer would climb aboard, see a brake valve, in this case EPIC which everyone is familiar with, and go. Any troubleshooting differences if incurred can be handled over the radio due to lack of familiarization. My point is exactly that, there's nothing officially stopping that crazy scenario from happening. Legally, a Locomotive, is a Locomotive.

[ApproachMedium]

There is such a thing. I just explained it. It exists on Amtrak and NJT, as i mentioned above. I do not know what other railroads work this way but I know those two do because I worked at the one, still work for the other and I experienced it in both places. I never said anything about it being a federal thing. The qualifications bear on you operating that engine by yourself over the territory you operate over. Like with the ACS 64, a good number of engineers needed to take the familiarization class first before they would allow the engines to go in revenue service. There is no official paper or card you carry that says "Look what I can do" It just gets logged into a computer database and thats it.

And there is nothing stopping that scenario from happening. Dont believe me? Why do you think P40s dont operate up there and pretty much never have except maybe a few rare times? Because the engineers are not qualified on it. They will not take it. Go down to hoboken and try to give an "unqualified" engineer an engine to run he is not "qualified" to operate. They will refuse it all day and night unless they have road forman supervision with them, or another engineer who is qualified to operate the engine to help them out. That is how it works. The same thing will happen on the newark side too. Remember way back when the PL42s came on the scene? They only ran the hoboken side for the longest time. Once all the bugs were figured out years later they finally got the newark guys qualified on them and then started to send them all over the system.

Lets see a freight guy just see the EPIC in the ALP45 and go. Do they know the cut in procedure for the non self lapping NJT stuff? Its not a regular 26 brake thats for sure, and the procedure is very different from your standard 26L/30CDW Desktop. An older guy may know what to do but one of these younger guys probably wont. The reverser is not standard, nor is the throttle. If the throttle rheostat goes bad, would they know how to put it into bypass mode? Stuff that NJT Mechanical, supervision or amtrak would really only be able to help you with. If you are not in an area where any of that is available you might just be stuck.

My favorite one of all, if a transit train breaks down and it needs to get towed and the cab car has no HEP power. Good luck getting that "Hey I know its an epic brake" to allow you to charge the brake pipe with the HEP off. There is a secret for that too, but you would only know if you are qualified on NJT cab cars with EPICII brake. Its not just hook up the hoses and go. Its a bit more involved.

[ThirdRail7]

Again, there is no such "Locomotive Qualification", the wording is incorrect. Whatever NJT does in house is another story (training familiarization), but not a "qualification", like how Pilot's hold type ratings on their license for aircraft types. Legally, a Locomotive, is a Locomotive.

That may be, but what you call "familiarization," the two rule books I still deal with call it qualification:

1-F(4) Engineers must be qualified on the physical characteristics of the
portion of the railroad over which they operate.
1-F(5) Engineers must be qualified on the type of equipment they
operate.

952. Qualification; Checking Inspection Forms
Engine Service Employees must be qualified on the type of engine to which they
are assigned, including any devices or auxiliaries attached to it. At a point where
no mechanical forces are on duty, they will check the prescribed form in the cab
to be sure that the unit or units of the engine consist have been inspected within
the previous calendar day.

I can speak from experience when I say NJT, Metro-North and Amtrak take this seriously. I can't jump on a set of M9s and start tooling around the New Haven Line anymore than a NJT engineer can jump on an Acela and operate it to Trenton. You are examined for proficiency on every type of equipment you will operate. This includes actual runs. If you are not signed off to run the equipment, you may not run it. A pilot must be ordered.

As AM stated above, it has less to do with moving and stopping the equipment and everything to do with troubleshooting. If you open the wrong cabinet on the AEM-7DC while looking for something else, I'm pretty sure you would not like what happened next. Same goes for the P32AC/DM. It is similar to the P42 and P40, but once again if you open the same door in the same area on the third rail equipped P32AC/DM, the results are going to be "sparkling."

That being said, you will be held accountable if you mangle yourself or equipment that the company has not "qualified" you to operate.

[srock1028]

And now I thank you Mr. ThirdRail!

[EM2000]

Way over your head guys. Again, I'm not debating what your individual RR's policy is, I'm stating the fact as per the FRA there is no such thing as a Locomotive qualification.

[ThirdRail7]

Way over your head guys. Again, I'm not debating what your individual RR's policy is, I'm stating the fact as per the FRA there is no such thing as a Locomotive qualification.

Um...and who said otherwise? You are the only one that mentioned FRA. We are indeed talking about the railroad, and it is called qualification and that is based on the host railroad. In this case, the host railroad is NJT and they follow the NORAC rule. Therefore, your statement is barely worthy of refutation since their practice clears conflicts with this statement:

Locomotive Engineer's do not "qualify" on Locomotive types.

[ACeInTheHole]

Mod note- EM2000, cool it or this thread gets a lock. You, ThirdRail, Approach and srock are all railroaders, at different railroads (ThirdRail and Approach read that appropriately). As such, each railroad has a different way of doing things. That is to be respected here... Now back to the P40s please.

#4801 is doubleheading with #4027 today. What is the status of the #4800, 4802, and 4803? The 4801 is the only one that really has shown any activity for the last year or so, does 4801 behave better than the other three?

[ApproachMedium]

And this kind of nonsense, IE not listening to the real railroaders speak and provide the facts from the books like Thridrail did, is why I stopped reading and posting in the NJT forum. Y'all know everything.

As for the status of the P40s, only one is pretty much operational. The rest are stored dead along with the F40s. Meanwhile NJT has a power shortage on diesels. Good job NJT.

[ACeInTheHole]

And this kind of nonsense, IE not listening to the real railroaders speak and provide the facts from the books like Thridrail did, is why I stopped reading and posting in the NJT forum. Y'all know everything.

As for the status of the P40s, only one is pretty much operational. The rest are stored dead along with the F40s. Meanwhile NJT has a power shortage on diesels. Good job NJT.

Exactly Approach. Exactly. Every railroad is going to have a different policy, different books to follow. Listen, take a note, and contribute to discussion. Thats all. Now, apologies for the off topic diversion.

I wonder why the other three are dead.