Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

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  by Ken W2KB
 
One of the advantages of PATH to EWR is the single seat ride from the WTC station near the financial district.

  by drewh
 
Except its not exactly single seat - you still have to transfer to the monorail.

Still better than not having it.
  by communipaw
 
But it could have been [theoretically still can be] a one stop ride, if the PA had done a little investment and brought a PATH station actually into/under the airport concourse. Something which could have been done relatively easily 25 years ago.

http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubes/gatewaytubepage.html

  by Irish Chieftain
 
Say hello to tri-state corruption...that's why NYC has no direct rail link to any of its metropolitan airports...

  by JLo
 
Here is my speculation: The JFK connection is going to be seriously delayed due to MTA budget problems. However, a PATH connection to Newark Airport via the NEC station is going to happen. Shumer's "Downtown rebuilding inertia" complaints are going to prompt even the NY idiots to push for something to get the Downtown on par with Midtown. The easiest thing to do is connect the WTC PATH with Newark Airport right now. 3 miles of new rails gets you a "direct connection" at least in political speak.

  by pgengler
 
Irish Chieftain wrote:On the old forum (not saved, unfortunately), there was quite a bit of talk about PATH being extended to the Northeast Corridor EWR monorail station, most likely on the other side of said station in the currently disused track space of Waverly Yard.

PATH tracks currently extend to South Street in Newark, right across the street from the abandoned PRR South Street Station, but those are only used as storage tracks at present.
I'm a little curious as to where they would put the tracks. There's not really room to extend them from where they end now along McCarter Highway, so presumably any extension would involve some way of getting to the other side of the NEC tracks. Any idea on what form this might take?

  by JLo
 
I'm a little curious as to where they would put the tracks. There's not really room to extend them from where they end now along McCarter Highway,
Actually, there is room. There is plenty of green grass and trees that can be removed between South St (where it ends now and the Rt 21 viaduct. A little shift of McCarter Hwy/Rt 21 might be needed near the newly widened section of roadway, but there is not a lot that will be impacted. Or, since PATH has to cross the NEC in anyway, it may be a viaduct that begins to rise after South St. You would only need enough room for support columns, not the massive concrete box that PATH sits on from Penn Station to South St. The real trick is to get PATH over the NEC and under Rt 21.

  by drewh
 
Again talk about a waste. McCarter Hwy/Rt 21 just had a major rebuild. Too bad this couldn't have been better co-ordinated. The PATH extension has been talked about for years. Even if the extension wasn't going to be built at the same time, they could have taken it into consideration.

Now to proceed with the extension, they will have to rip up all of the landscaping and I'm sure part of the road will have to be re-done as well.

Doesn't the extension have to cross the NEC at some point, as I believe the airport platforms are supposed to be between the NEC and the monorail?? Anyone seen plans yet for where and how (over or under) PATH will cross the NEC??

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have built a higher speed monorail and just have it go all the way to NWK Penn Sta, instead of building the EWR rail link station?? After all this is what they did for JFK.
  by Norb
 
Either extending the Monorail from the Newark Airport Terminals directly to Newark Penn Station
or extending the PATH from Newark Penn Station directly to the Newark Airport Terminals
would have obviated the need for NEC train stop at the new Newark Airport station
  by pgengler
 
Norb wrote:Either extending the Monorail from the Newark Airport Terminals directly to Newark Penn Station
or extending the PATH from Newark Penn Station directly to the Newark Airport Terminals
would have obviated the need for NEC train stop at the new Newark Airport station
I don't think this is true, especially for people coming from points south/west of Newark. Being able to hop on the train to the airport monorail stop, and take monorail from them, is going to be much faster, simpler, and more comfortable than getting on the train, riding into Newark Penn, then transferring to a slower and less comfortable ride on PATH or the monorail. I suppose this is also true of people coming from NY Penn. Really, the only people who would benefit from that arrangement would be riders coming from the RVL, since they would only need one transfer (RVL to PATH/monorail at Newark Penn) instead of two (RVL to NEC/NJCL at Newark Penn and then to EWR).

  by drewh
 
Either extending the Monorail from the Newark Airport Terminals directly to Newark Penn Station
If this had been planned properly, and the monorail upgraded to what was done for JFK, then I think extending the new Airtrain to NWK Penn as well as North Broad (instead of the subway extention) would have been a great idea.

There is no way the extremely slow existing monorail would have cut it. A faster, larger capacity Airtrain would be able to make the trip from NWK to Terminal C in about 5 minutes - same time it currently takes from the EWR rail station.

There would have been several advantages:
1) no need to build a new EWR rail station.
2) all trains stop at NWK so thus far more connections. Currently there is but 1 train an hour heading south/west in the evening (454pm, 603pm, 637pm, 7pm, 735pm, 836pm - also 725 express to Princeton). NWK has 22 trains during the same period - a 3 fold increase in service would have been available.
3) service for RVL and PATH passengers.
4) Access to Acela Express - none currently stop at EWR.
5) Extending to North Broad gives access to M&E and Montclair/Boonton.
6) Increased capacity - current monorail is over taxed at times. Many times the trains are so crowded that you can't get on.

  by AndyB
 
Someone remind me.
What was the final cost of the Monorail and ERW Station?
Was it $1.65 Billion?

And the projected cost of PATH extension (late 80s)
Was it $600 Million?

Our Tax dollars at work!

  by Tom V
 
The total cost of the Airtrain system.

1996 Monorail $400 Million

2001 Monorail/Airtrain extension plus new NEC rail station, $200 Million.

Total since 1996 $600 Million.

Estimated cost for 1.5 mile PATH extension to Newark Liberty International Airport Rail link station, $550 Million.

A bargain in today's economy!

  by korbermeister
 
Either extending the Monorail from the Newark Airport Terminals directly to Newark Penn Station
or extending the PATH from Newark Penn Station directly to the Newark Airport Terminals
would have obviated the need for NEC train stop at the new Newark Airport station
I don't believe that the P.A. could have legally used their money to extend the monorail all the way to newark penn without a lot of legal/political arm-twisting. I think that the land that the monorail station is on had to be declared (officially) a part of newark liberty airport in order for them to spend money to extend the monorail to the station in waverly yards.

I also remember reading that th P.A. were interested in attracting developers to build in the waverly yards in the future, making the station a destination in itself.

As far as extending PATH to the airport, like so many other things in history, it was a victim of short-sightedness...

  by JLo
 
I also remember reading that th P.A. were interested in attracting developers to build in the waverly yards in the future, making the station a destination in itself.
NOt quite accurate. The PA has the right to build any transportation system within 25 miles of midtown Manhattan.

Also the Waverly Yard project is private development, not PA. Hartz Mountain is interested in building a huge office park and wanted access to the Airport rail station. This would be illegal under the federal government excise tax charged on air tickets (which built the station) because such projects can only benefit the air travel itself, not private development. The compromise is that the project, if it gets built, can be accessed from the station but no one can get to it from the office park.
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