• Utica Branch Discussion Thread

  • Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.
Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.

Moderators: GOLDEN-ARM, NJ Vike

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  by Steve F45
 
O-6-O wrote:Currently CSX drops NYS&W traffic in the MA&N yard on the north side of the main off track 1. The MA&N transfers it to the NYS&W using the
trackage rights they have to ROME. (cp 235 to cp248). The CSX connector
at the east end of the NYS&W complex is still intact and about the only
traffic I've seen on it recently is power going to Selkirk for work. Also
the yard around the shop is thinning out along with much of the junk
(rail wise) is gone. Is a sale imminent? Things are changing.
so they're taking up the rail too or just getting rid of all the junk loco's?

  by cjvrr
 
I believe he is talking about equipment and locos in the yard. NYS&W has been selling off the out of service trucks and other equipment there on the NYS&W website.

  by amoreho1
 
whats gonna happen with 120 and 2400 since there doing some cleaning around utica

  by ANDY117
 
I heard somewhere else (it was on here, or one of the yahoo! groups) that the guys from Dansville were interested in it as a shop switcher. As for the 2400, isn't it for sale?

  by Steve F45
 
the 2400 thats the other E7 right? Whats wrong with it?

  by amoreho1
 
2400 and 2402 are E9s

  by Steve F45
 
my bad. so whats wrong with the 2400?

  by Steve F45
 
i just saw that picture. I sent a message asking whats wrong with it on the nysw message boards.
  by Jason W
 
Walter Rich parked #142 outside of my local pizza place when it was brand -new to the Susquehanna. When it was steamed up for the Easter Bunny Run the same year I got to spend about twelve seconds in the cab, and I can still remember every detail of the cab. When he walked by I thought I was seeing a titan or a hero of Greek mythology...

Then he sold 80% of the railroad to CSX and NS.

Then he set into motion the destruction of my valley so that he can become more wealthy. Not wealthy, more wealthy (http://www.stopnyri.com,btw).

And then I read this:http://www.railroadedincooperstown.com/...

Needless to say my opinion of the man has become a bit more jaded in my adulthood. I guess our heroes always fail us.

  by cjvrr
 
JasonW,

I think the move to sell the railroads stock to NS and CSX was a very wise business move.

With the Conrail split the NYS&W connections to CSX and NS were no longer of any value. The intermodal contracts the NYS&W had with NS and CSX were in competition to Conrail. Now that NS and CSX had their own routes to NJ they didn't need the NYS&W. The writing was on the wall for the NYS&W. All parties involved knew the NYS&W would have had a good case to kill or change the Conrail split. So what better way to remove the potential threat than to buy it. WR really had no other viable option. If he had tried to go it alone, he still would not have had a friendly connection on the west end of the line.

I won't argue your other points.
  by Noel Weaver
 
Regarding police officer Butler, there are TWO SIDES to this story like
all other stories. I would like to hear the other side before forming any
opinions, it is only fair.
Regarding stock, the Delaware Otsego was a stockholder owner company
which owned the C & CV, F J & G, CNY, NYS&w among others. It
expanded when the D & H made moves to abandon the line into
Cooperstown and the founders of the C & CV agreed to have the
Delaware Otsego take over the company and expand the sale of stock.
I had stock in the Delaware Otsego right from the time that they took over
the Cooperstown and Charlotte Valley in 1970. In 1971 they officially
took over the company and the trackage from the Delaware and Hudson.
In subsequent years, the DO took over other lines that otherwise would
have probably been torn up.
In 1997, I believe, the CSX and NS were settling up what they were going
to do with Conrail and the DO knew that there were going to be changes
that would affect them so Walter Rich made the decision with the
concurence of the board of directors to buy up the existing stock that was
at the time being held by other stockholders than himself. He was able to
do this with financial assistance from NS and CSX. Today, I believe that
Walter Rich controls the company but both NS and CSX have set various
conditions that restrict his rights so far as the DO is concerned. I think
this is one reason that there are little or no passenger operations outside
of New York State.
In my opinion, the final settlement was very fair to the stockholders of the
DO at the time.
Especially in the earlier days when I first bought my stock, I did not intend
to make any money on it but rather considered it a donation to help save
the railroad into Cooperstown where I had rich memories of this line when
I was a child visiting my grandparents. I was from Connecticut but even
then was impressed with the Delaware and Hudson operation of this line.
Noel Weaver

  by Steamtown Observer
 
Let me start by saying business is business and Walter Rich plays to win (for himself and his friends). That being said, a couple of corrections:
In my opinion, the final settlement was very fair to the stockholders of the DO at the time.
Maybe in your opinion but you may also recall that about 2 years later stockholders got a second payment after DO was forced to settle a class action lawsuit because the price paid to stockholders was deemed inadequate. The buyout price was about $4 per share lower than the all-time high (unusual in management buyouts at the time).

Also DO admitted that CN wanted to do a deal with them that would have kept DO/NYS&W "independent". But in that deal CN would not load management the money to do the buyout thus squeezing out the public stockholders. Thus a potentially better deal went by the wayside.
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