• All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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  by MelroseMatt
 
Suburban Station wrote:
undoubtedly an airport site would be bad for middletown both because they'll get an inferior development at the AP Green site and because the borough would no longer be within walking distance of the station. I can't imagine any legitimate reason they'd go with teh airport site given that it's decidedly un transit oriented AND produces operational headaches.
An airport stop would mean I'd actually consider flying out of Harrisburg. No matter how many trains stop in the middle of Middletown Boro, I've got no reason to get off there.

PHL, EWR and BWI have direct rail access, which for me, makes these large airports much easier to fly from. I'm finding cheep flights out of Atlantic City, but until the NJT Train stops there, I'm not very likely to book anything.

What's my best bet for getting to Harrisburg airport now? Take the Keystone into Harrisburg then get a cab? Thumb a ride from Middletown?
  by inroads2008
 
Middletown Station from Fatal Fawl Analysis Report:

2.1 Existing Location

The existing station location is at Mill Street on the eastern edge of Middletown Borough. Based on ridership, this station needs to
provide bathrooms, a ticket kiosk and shelter. Public meeting forums report that riders are happy with the current location.
For this reason, the existing location was analyzed along with other alternatives for fatal flaws. It should be noted that if a no build alternative is chosen - the
existing station with no upgrades- Amtrak or the Federal Railroad Administration could possibly discontinue the service due to substandard design.


2.1.1 Track Realignment and Platforms
As discussed earlier, the current platform location is on a curved part of the rail line, which means that the rails are in super elevation. This causes a problem with alignment of the adjacent platform
in meeting ADA criteria for accessibility. In order to upgrade the station at its existing location to meet Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) and ADA requirements, the platform would need to be
moved further east and lengthened to 500 feet. This pushes the platform(s) onto the railroad bridge over the Swatara Creek (Figure 2) [see report link above] making it necessary to construct a new bridge. The high construction cost of a new bridge and the associated permitting do not make this a practical alternative and therefore is considered fatally flawed.


And I thought ADA curb ramps where costly! moving the whole station because its in a super-elevated curve and can't meet ADA standards. WOW! Seems like someone needs to design an ADA platform for a super-elevated track.
  by Suburban Station
 
MelroseMatt wrote: An airport stop would mean I'd actually consider flying out of Harrisburg. No matter how many trains stop in the middle of Middletown Boro, I've got no reason to get off there.

PHL, EWR and BWI have direct rail access, which for me, makes these large airports much easier to fly from. I'm finding cheep flights out of Atlantic City, but until the NJT Train stops there, I'm not very likely to book anything.

What's my best bet for getting to Harrisburg airport now? Take the Keystone into Harrisburg then get a cab? Thumb a ride from Middletown?
flights are more expensive so I don't know how important that is, not likey many people would do it. certainly a shuttle could get you to the airport just like it does at BWI. (and the harrisburg airport is in middletown) demand seems unlikely to change. more important would be getting middletown and others to PHL methinks, where flight prices and options are much greater. parking costs and traffic are also an issue there and not at middletown.
  by j653
 
In 2009:
  • -1,242,663 individuals few in/out of MDT
    -58,453 used the Middletown Amtrak station
Getting just 5 percent of flyers to use the Amtrak station would more than double the annual number using the station. And regardless of the final location selection, a free shuttle should be provided every 10-20 minutes.
  by Suburban Station
 
j653 wrote:In 2009:
  • -1,242,663 individuals few in/out of MDT
    -58,453 used the Middletown Amtrak station
Getting just 5 percent of flyers to use the Amtrak station would more than double the annual number using the station. And regardless of the final location selection, a free shuttle should be provided every 10-20 minutes.
Either at the current location or the AP Green Site a shuttle can be used to get to the airport very easily (not that it would have been that difficult from the current station so why there's no shuttle there is a big question mark). worse, there's a shuttle for the parking lot
Shuttle Schedule: This lot is served by shuttle buses that are fully accessible to those who are physically challenged. HIA Parking shuttle buses run approximately every 10 minutes, 24-hours a day from the numbered shelters in the Long-term/Economy lot to the terminal and back.
every ten minutes! and they can't meet 12 trains a day? as far as I can tell, you can walk from the AP Green site to the long term lot which is another reason it makes sense (it's actually closer than the terminal for the airport)
AP Green-walk to middletown downtown: 2-3 blocks. adds 2-3 blocks for parts of middletown. will ahve parking and pickup for station, walking distance to long term lot for airport, easy for shuttle buses to stop at station.
Current site: shuttles woudl have to go through residential neighborhood and platform would be curved
HIA-lots of parking, not near middletown, requires crossing freight tracks (new interlocking, work with NS, possible congestion)
AP Green seems like a no brainer to me.

OTOH, while the numbers may at first be striking, we need to think about what they don't say. sure, 1.2 million flew out of HIA but where did they go? would they, instead, take the train to PHL rather than catch a puddle jumper from HIA? If so, how many people does that account for? I've met people taking the R1 to the Keystone, one can only imagine more people would do it without the transfer, negating the need for connecting flights from HIA to PHL. there's no reason, IMO, a fast line couldn't take 70% of this market. where do they live? does it make sense to drive from lititz, pa to lancaster, park, and take the train to HIA when it's faster and probably just as cheap to drive to HIA? 5% may be an ambitious target, maybe 1% is more realistic. and if transportation policy is changed, ridership at the airport coudl plummet so maybe 5% of what's left.


http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=na ... CA8Q8gEwAA

the AP Green site is just north of the long term parking on the right
http://www.flyhia.com/documents/hia_cam ... ension.jpg
Last edited by Suburban Station on Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by Matt Johnson
 
From what I remember, the Keystone trains roll past Harrisburg Airport at over 100 mph. Putting a station there would certainly reduce the amount of high speed running.
  by gp80mac
 
The HIA stop was to replace the current Middletown stop. So not much time would be lost, and it's not like there's non-stop PHL-HAR service anyhow...
  by MudLake
 
Matt Johnson wrote:From what I remember, the Keystone trains roll past Harrisburg Airport at over 100 mph. Putting a station there would certainly reduce the amount of high speed running.
Mr. Johnson, perhaps your memory is failing you. A new station outside of the airport would mean a relocation of about 1 mile from the current Middletown station. That's not to mention that Middletown is in the middle of a severe curve which likely has quite a low speed limit. It's possible no train has ever passed the airport at 100 mph even if it wasn't stopping at Middletown.
  by Matt Johnson
 
MudLake wrote:Mr. Johnson, perhaps your memory is failing you.
That may well be. I do remember seeing my GPS receiver showing 100+ mph on that final stretch before Harrisburg, where the train is running alongside the river.
  by Suburban Station
 
MudLake wrote: The fact that it would sit adjacent to an enormous parking lot is a tremendous advantage. My guess (disclaimer: only a guess) is the percentage of passengers who ride a Keystone train and walked to their station is very very low.
so to reiterate, the parking lot is actually by the AP Green site, not HIA
  by twropr
 
I saw heard that there is a high level platform in service at Elizabethtown. Is it a full platform, or just for handicapped boarding?

Andy
  by DEkid
 
Construction of the high level platform appears to be coming along well and will extend the entire length of the train- which according to their website is 500 ft.

The plan on their website calls for a full canopy to cover the station, however "bus" like shelters have been installed. Why was the canopy scratched in favor of the smaller shelters, especially since the project bid came in under bid?

http://www.planthekeystone.com/elizabethtown.html
  by twropr
 
A PENNDOT contact told me that reverse signalling is supposed to be cut in between Holland and Leaman some time in May. Has anyone seen any evidence of C&S work east of Lancaster recently?

Thanks!

Andy
  by neroden
 
DEkid wrote:Construction of the high level platform appears to be coming along well and will extend the entire length of the train- which according to their website is 500 ft.

The plan on their website calls for a full canopy to cover the station, however "bus" like shelters have been installed. Why was the canopy scratched in favor of the smaller shelters, especially since the project bid came in under bid?

http://www.planthekeystone.com/elizabethtown.html
Are we sure the canopy plan was completely scratched? Could the bus shelters be temporary and intended to be removed (for use elsewhere) at a later date?
  by Lackawanna565
 
Any plans to put in a constant tension catenary wire on the line? Also, I thought Amtrak was going to upgrade E-town to a full time interlocking. How come Amtrak chose Rheems for location the new crossovers? I wish got photos of E-town before Amtrak ripped it up.
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