• Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by Noel Weaver
 
The problems that are being encountered with winter ski train operations here as well as many other places bears out what I have said several times on here and elsewhere. As a former skier, skiers prefer their own car for ski trips and their next choice is a group charter by bus. The bus can leave from a good location and takes them right to the ski area, not a distant railroad station. They can arrange for their departure whenever they want. Albany or Saratoga to North Creek is not a big enough market to support a regular ski train operation. Maybe an occasional charter could work. I hope the overall operation in better weather conditions can make a success here. They need to forget about trying to run in the winter time. The idea is great but the success is not. I know the Denver - Winter Park ski train has returned but in this case the distance is farther, the traffic much worwse, the train stops very close to the foot of the lifts and Denver has a huge base of skiers. Big difference between Saratoga Springs and Denver.

Noel Weaver
  by BandA
 
Assuming the IP falls over into a liquidation, you could have the local managers of the S&NC organize a new railroad, perhaps buy the IP rolling stock that is onsite from the bankruptcy trustee or at auction. Or you could look for another operator. Perhaps the M&E would be interested. What is CP's interest at this point?
  by Safetee
 
doubtful if local managers would get involved. no one knows better than they do that sn&c is long on promise and short on rewards. and CP? the branch was dropped because it had no freight traffic. cp does a miserable job with branches and doesnt exactly do new york freight customers justice the way they operate. i'm afraid that unless somebody comes up with a subsidy, this historic branch has seen it's last passenger trains.
  by RussNelson
 
Safetee wrote:But for those who think that bikes on a bike trail where trains have trod is the economic nirvana that they have sought. think again. Bike riders have nice bikes, lots of spandex, but eat very little beyond snacks, live in tents, wash in streams, and spend very little on the local economy.
If you're going to rip up railroad tracks that still have trains on them, not only am I going to spend "very little" on the local economy, 'bout the only thing I'm gonna do is * in your johns.

But no, I don't eat very little beyond snacks, live in tents, wash in streams (seriously??).
  by BR&P
 
BandA wrote:Assuming the IP falls over into a liquidation, you could have the local managers of the S&NC organize a new railroad, perhaps buy the IP rolling stock that is onsite from the bankruptcy trustee or at auction.
There is WAY more to operating a railroad than equipment and rails. Especially if it's connected to the national railroad system and hopes to operate freight. The regulatory and organizational hoops are complex. And it's doubtful the local managers had been getting enough money to be sitting fat, happy, and able to afford locomotives, coaches, lawyers, and all the other necessary equipment.

If Iowa Pacific thought this line was a proven money-maker, they would be finding a way to preserve operations there while divesting other properties which were not making a contribution. Instead, this was one of the first to be shut down. That should be a red flag.
  by SemperFidelis
 
RussNelson wrote: But no, I don't eat very little beyond snacks, live in tents, wash in streams (seriously??).
Mr. Nelson I was going to say something about that, but you beat me to it. I don't bicycle, but the serious mountain bikers I know around here don't hesitate for a moment to drop a few grand on a bike made out of the most recent composite materials and follow up that purchase by spending another few grand lightweight gear. They're okay guys but, generally speaking, the tough guy image is just that: an image. Most of them wouldn't wash in a stream if thier life depended on it and as for sleeping anywhere where there isn't room service? Forget about it.
  by Safetee
 
i stand corrected. as soon as they can get those damn rails torn out and a couple of layers of asphalt laid down, the copperfield is going to be absolutely buried in upscale macho mountain bikers. it will be a harvard business school case study tome. the wonder is that the folks in warrensburg didnt figure all that out first before wasting all that state money on foolish rail schemes.
  by BR&P
 
Well to honor the rail heritage I think the bike trail should be given a railroad-type name. What can we come up with?

Spandex & Southern
Ten Speed Terminal
Pedals and Pacific
Cramped Legs and Sorebutt
Schwinnsylvania
Derailleur and Handlebar (D&H?)

Image
  by Matt Langworthy
 
How about:

1. [..BMX..] How Tomorrow Pedals
2. Eerie Lycrawanna
3. Pedal Hard & Hudson
  by Safetee
 
who sez that modern rail fans cant forgive and forget and move on accepting changes such as bike paths that equate to modern technological poetry in motion.
  by charlie6017
 
BR&P wrote:
Safetee wrote:i stand corrected. as soon as they can get those damn rails torn out and a couple of layers of asphalt laid down, the copperfield is going to be absolutely buried in upscale macho mountain bikers. it will be a harvard business school case study tome. the wonder is that the folks in warrensburg didnt figure all that out first before wasting all that state money on foolish rail schemes.
Well to honor the rail heritage I think the bike trail should be given a railroad-type name. What can we come up with?

Spandex & Southern
Ten Speed Terminal
Pedals and Pacific
Cramped Legs and Sorebutt
Schwinnsylvania
Derailleur and Handlebar (D&H?)

Image
Genuine spit-take!! :P
  by johnpbarlow
 
Safetee wrote:i stand corrected. as soon as they can get those damn rails torn out and a couple of layers of asphalt laid down, the copperfield is going to be absolutely buried in upscale macho mountain bikers. it will be a harvard business school case study tome. the wonder is that the folks in warrensburg didnt figure all that out first before wasting all that state money on foolish rail schemes.
Don't even need to rip up the rails and replace with asphalt: http://www.bikingbis.com/2012/02/06/rai ... ron-horse/

Image
  by Safetee
 
i'm sorry, but the guys pictured on rail bikes do not conjure up the image of macho upscale mountain bikers. in fact, the bikers pictured are the type who live off the land in this case harvesting flora and fauna.
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