Adirondack Scenic Railroad (ADIX) Discussion - 2014

[Steve F45]

what about legal fee's also from the injured snowmobilers lawyers suing whoever they can cause there client was injured on these trails?? Who covers that added expense?

[traingeek8223]

Snagged this from another forum:

http://www.broadwingadventures.com/1/po ... an-it.html

A very well thought out trail alternative the DOSEN'T remove the railroad. Strange concept I know.

[Tony Goodwin]

Your resident skunk at the garden party is here to say that Jack Drury's proposal is not at all "well thought out." It definitely does not in any way achieve ARTA's goal of a flat, smooth trail, separated from highway traffic. A trail that is therefore unlike all other Adirondack trails and thus capable of attracting a whole new group of trail users. My analysis below is based on my extensive efforts to scout a route for the Jackrabbit Ski Trail between Saranac Lake and Tupper Lake - an effort that may never come to fruition because of the difficulty in piecing all the parts together.

Specifically: Mr. Drury's proposal still requires: 1) 13 miles of rail with trail, and that requires parallel fill and the lengthening of every culvert and drainage; 2) Over eight miles of very rough and narrow trail proposed to somehow be converted into a smooth, flat trail; 3) Over five miles of private road, including one mile through a densely populated development; 4) Over four miles on highways, including Rt. 30 with no shoulders; and 5) 0.7 miles of totally new trail construction that would also have to be made flat and smooth to achieve ARTA's goal.

[traingeek8223]

I don't think anyone here is surprised that you don't like it Tony. So what you are saying is, you don't want a trail, you want a completely FLAT trail? Selfish. This is why we maintain that there are alternate motives behind the principles at ARTA. And since you brought it up, wouldn't the railroad ROW make a nice addition to your Jackrabbit Trail system? Your true colors are showing.

What I would like to know is why do your supporters keep saying "old men playing with trains"? I'm clearly thirty years your younger and I am fully supporting the restoration of rail service. Do they know the average age of the players of ARTA?

This debate has gone on to the point of nausea. You want results? Start working with the railroad instead of against it.

[tree68]

And the 800 pound gorilla in ARTA's "plans:"

Cost to develop a "shared use" trail in the Albany area comes in at about $1M a mile.

A trail in Saratoga County will cost around $1.6M for two kilometers (as the crow flies).

Just exactly where is the $60M+ to build this trail going to come from? Oh, yeah - they aren't going to build the trail. ARTA just wants the tracks up so everyone will get out of their forest.

Just think - $45M, more or less, gets trains into Lake Placid, probably by the spring/summer of 2015 if the money is forthcoming soon. It's a "shovel ready" project - no permits, no special permissions. Just get the track up to snuff and go.

[ccutler]

Hey, lucky for us, I just came across a photo of very interesting guy. He was just so excited to explain to us what a good idea it is to create a high-speed, snowmobiling trail far out in the wilderness, with grades and precipices on both sides of the trail, and far from any help:

[Otto Vondrak]

Your friendly moderator here... Let's please bring this discussion back to the railroad or else find another topic to discuss.

Thank you!

-otto-

[SST]

What I find amusing is that Tony indirectly admits he can't afford to build the trail that he wants. The next best thing is to take yours. Doesn't seem to bother him that the property he's trying to take, is still owned and operating by an existing company. How can NYS politician allow this.........somebody must be feeding them money that allows this to be this far along.

[charlie6017]

How can NYS politician allow this

Come on in, SST and we'll put on a pot of coffee and make some snacks. This could take a while.........

Charlie

[Tony Goodwin]

The property is owned by the State of New York. It's up to State officials to decide what use of this corridor will most benefit the taxpayers who bought this rail corridor. We, ARTA, are totally confident that the scrap value will fund most, if not all, of the initial surfacing from Lake Placid to Tupper Lake. What we can't afford is to try to bring a meandering route that diverges from the corridor up to the level that we believe will attract a whole new group of trail users

[Noel Weaver]

The property is owned by the State of New York. It's up to State officials to decide what use of this corridor will most benefit the taxpayers who bought this rail corridor. We, ARTA, are totally confident that the scrap value will fund most, if not all, of the initial surfacing from Lake Placid to Tupper Lake. What we can't afford is to try to bring a meandering route that diverges from the corridor up to the level that we believe will attract a whole new group of trail users

B A L O N E Y

Noel Weaver

[traingeek8223]

We, ARTA, are totally confident that the scrap value will fund most, if not all, of the initial surfacing from Lake Placid to Tupper Lake

This confidence is still based on pixy dust as I have proven that statement wrong on several occasions.

[SST]

The property is owned by the State of New York. It's up to State officials to decide what use of this corridor will most benefit the taxpayers who bought this rail corridor. We, ARTA, are totally confident that the scrap value will fund most, if not all, of the initial surfacing from Lake Placid to Tupper Lake. What we can't afford is to try to bring a meandering route that diverges from the corridor up to the level that we believe will attract a whole new group of trail users

Even if what you say is true, you're still screwing with a company that is still in business and is still operating over the line in question!

[Tony Goodwin]

Yes, the ASR is still in business and will continue in business after the corridor becomes a trail north of Thendara. Remember that, aside from a few anomalous Olympic months in 1980, the corridor between Big Moose and Saranac Lake has not seen revenue service for over 40 years. And only significant infusions of taxpayer dollars will possibly change that. Know that snowmobile interests south of Thendara have advocated for further removal of the rails. ARTA, has maintained, however, that the compromise should be that the Utica to Thendara rail operation should continue.

I'm sure that most who will read this will not see this as a compromise position. Realize, however, that a) the ASR will retain about 80% of their current operations, b) the State won't have to spend taxpayer dollars that could be better spent on other rail projects, and c) the trail will attract a whole new group of trail users that can for free use the corridor 24/7 = 365 days and not just when the train happens to be running with a fare requested.

[tree68]

Yeah, the snowmobilers are going to love having the rails removed until the environmentalist/preservationist folks have the whole trail shut down because it goes through wilderness areas...

You'll note that you haven't heard from that group yet - they're letting ARTA do the early dirty work.

And not all of the snowmobilers have been so blind as to think that's not going to happen.