Underrunning Third Rail: Any Advantages?

Are there any advantages to using underrunning 3rd rail that the New York Central used unlike everyone else?

Safety. And nothing more.

Less snow and ice buildup on contact surfaces?

Less snow and ice buildup on contact surfaces?

No. Not really.

There have been winter storms in the past where Metro North outperformed LIRR under similar weather conditions. The reason given was the difference in the third rail.

However, all storms are different. If it's a snowstorm where the snow totals pile up quickly, the underrunning type would get buried quicker. (In storms like these, LIRR wound up performing better.)

Jay

Like jay said the lirr has covers over the third rail so snow will build ut on the cover before the third rail

You haven't enjoyed every aspect of riding the RR in the northeast until you've been a passenger on an MU train in the middle of an icy night, the arcing shoes continuously lighting up the surrounding area...sparks flying from the shoes...M/As and propulsion constantly surging on/off/on/off.

I don't know why they just don't start installing calrod-type or other appropriate 3rd rail heaters. Do it a little at a time, starting with busiest traffic areas. (Even if only one track is done through a given area, at least they can single track if conditions really got bad, but not be completely hobbled by severe icing. I'd rather get there late, then get completely stuck somewhere.) Have them remotely controlled, so an operator can turn them on only in the proper conditions. This is not brain surgery. Cost can be offset by savings on alcohol train, labor and material for applying "scraper shoes", etc., and not beating the heck out of your EMU equipment.

I remember watching the Metro-North trains plow through the snow after the blizzard of '93 and seeing the large and brilliant sparks that flew off the third rail shoes as the trains crawled through the area. I haven't had the pleasure of riding one in such conditions, but I can only imaging what the show would have been like, especially at night.

I wonder if catenary has similar problems.

<i>
You haven't enjoyed every aspect of riding the RR in the northeast until you've been a passenger on an MU train in the middle of an icy night, the arcing shoes continuously lighting up the surrounding area...sparks flying from the shoes...M/As and propulsion constantly surging on/off/on/off. </i>

I remember watching a train stop at Lynbrook durring an ice storm. That was fun watching THAT MUCH arcing. You can hear it in the MU car as the train does it, too.

<i>I don't know why they just don't start installing calrod-type or other appropriate 3rd rail heaters. Do it a little at a time, starting with busiest traffic areas. (Even if only one track is done through a given area, at least they can single track if conditions really got bad, but not be completely hobbled by severe icing. I'd rather get there late, then get completely stuck somewhere.) Have them remotely controlled, so an operator can turn them on only in the proper conditions. This is not brain surgery. Cost can be offset by savings on alcohol train, labor and material for applying "scraper shoes", etc., and not beating the heck out of your EMU equipment</i>

Interesting concept. You could even feed the heater off the third rail.

I believe in Norway, where they still use 1.5kv, they have a more direct approach - they ground the catenary at a point far from the substation. Same effect, a bit more dramatic

Hey - I know the LIRR and MN have jet engine based track clearers. Does anyone know what kind of engine they use? ISTR it wa a GE of some type. Certainly a small one.

Interesting concept. You could even feed the heater off the third rail.

Exactamundo. We already use electric switch point heaters that are powered by third rail voltage. It's not a stretch of the imagination to apply the same thing to heat the third rail. I don't believe it would be terribly expensive, done gradually.

Tom

I believe there can be more problems with snow and cold temperatures on overhead wires due to icing. It has been a problem on the pantographs.

Some times you would see a train running with the forward pans up as well as the rear pans in order to clean so to speak the wires of any ice buildup on the wires.