Trolley questions

As time has allowed I have been riding various parts of the SEPTA system. I am down to just needing the trolley (subway/surface) routes. So a couple of questions as trolley operations have never been an area of study.

1. Switches, I noticed on a recent ride of the 15 route two different thing happened regarding switches: At the west end of the 15 route, one car I was riding ended its run and stopped for a time in a short section of double track in the street. A second car came from behind and passed, picked up passengers and then continued on. The motorman had to get out and manually throw the switch in the street. I did not take note of the exact scheduled run this happened on, more it was a matter of I was the first car that came along. Is this a normal occurrence? Is it predictable via the schedule? Or do you know of any regular times this happens? My observation was in the early afternoon.

1A. From a trip a few years prior, on the section where routes 15 and 10 overlap I did not notice any one needing to throw switches. Did I miss it or is this some form of power switch? On this most recent ride the 10 was out of service so switches were not needed so there was nothing to observe. Did I simply miss the method of throwing the switch on my earlier trip?

1B. Same question regarding the tunnel area where all the routes are together, are the switches automatic in some way or dispatcher controlled?

2. Car barns or depots. I see reference to these but can't find any specific locations? Are any visible from the normal routes? If they are not visible from the routes having a cross street location would be good for a drive by observation. It would be most helpful for saying XYZ depot is located along the ZYX route near _______.

3. Diversions: I keep seeing reference to some diversion routes that exist. What diversions exist and are they able to be ridden or are they for out-of-service cars? Anyone have any tips on how to ride some of these diversion routes (ie. they only operate a ______times) if they are able to be ridden?

EDIT to add one: I see reference to 1234 Market street. I take it this is SEPTA HQ, and there is some type of store or museum at this location? If so for an out of tower what station gets you closest to this location? Is it worth a visit?

Thanks,

I can deal with a couple of these. There is a network of surface tracks known collectively as the "diversion trackage" used when there is an obstruction in the tunnel. Starting at 42nd and Woodland it diverges from the 11 and 36 and runs north, picking up the 13 at Chester Ave. and the 34 at Baltimore Ave., then east on Spruce, north on 38th, west on Filbert (?--the first street north of Market), and south on 40th to Market, where they discharge passengers to the subway and pick up passengers from the subway, then south on 40th to Spruce, and reverse of above. I forget exactly what the 10 does, but it gets from Lancaster Ave. to at least walking distance of 40th and Market. (None of this trackage is shown on maps available to the public, but sometimes you can find a track map amongst railfan memorabilia which shows everything.) All the stations in the tunnel are equipped with a flashing blue light which is activated when the diversion trackage is in use; the junctions, such as 42nd and Woodland, have a flashing blue light mounted on a pole to let operators know to take the diversion trackage instead of the regular route. It is practically impossible to plan to ride the diversion trackage; the usual reason for using it is some kind of problem in the tunnel, such as a mechanical failure that stalls a car, or the occasional rear-end collision. The only planned use of the diversion trackage is for scheduled maintenance in the tunnel, normally in the wee hours when there would not be much to see on the diversion trackage. Any planned fantrips almost always include coverage of the diversion trackage because it is practically impossible to get otherwise except by coincidence if something happens while you're riding.
1234 Market is an office building housing SEPTA headquarters. On the ground floor there is a display of historic photos and artifacts, as well as a gift shop. The nearest stops are Market East on Regional Rail and 13th St. on the Market-Frankford line. The gift shop seems to be more and more oriented toward kiddie gifts but also has publications of interest to railfans. It's worth a look; I should mention that the photos are well worth studying if you're not familiar with the system and the various things that used to be.

ask and you shall receive:

1. the passing siding on the west end of girard. normally a rt. 15 car will wait a few minutes at the end of its run before starting the next run, blocking up east bound girard ave. when a rt 10 car is heading for the barn, it will come down 63rd st from malvern loop to girard to go to callowhill depot. if a rt 15 car is on layover it will use the passing siding so it doesn't have to wait untill the 15 car starts its next run.

1/1a/1b. switches that are not normally used except in special cases are manually thrown, i.e. the motormen gets out with a switch iron and physically throws it over. switches that are often thrown, like lancaster and girard, are what are called v-tag switches. there is a large electromagnetic cylinder in the street, connected to the switch mechanism. the route is programmed in to the software on the car and it throws the switch automatically, or failing that, the motorman can actuate it with his turn signals. the lone switch in the tunnel is a v-tag switch

2. Woodland depot, 49th and woodland, is visible from the 11 and 36. Elmwood depot, 73rd and elmwood, is visible from the 36, and if you ride the 36 after midnight it short turns through the depot. Callowhill depot, 59th and callowhill, is not visible from any acitve route, although the 15 comes within a block or two. that being said, its in one of the worst neighborhoods in the city, so if you must go, drive.

3. you can ride the diversion route any sunday after 10 pm. excon90 listed the diversion for the 11,13,34,and 36. the 10 makes a right off of lancaster ave at 40th, turns right on ogden, and turns right on 41st back to lancaster. it'll cost you four tokens to ride the full diversion route, as 40th and ogden is the terminus for all lines

jtaeffner wrote: 1/1a/1b. switches that are not normally used except in special cases are manually thrown, i.e. the motormen gets out with a switch iron and physically throws it over. switches that are often thrown, like lancaster and girard, are what are called v-tag switches. there is a large electromagnetic cylinder in the street, connected to the switch mechanism. the route is programmed in to the software on the car and it throws the switch automatically, or failing that, the motorman can actuate it with his turn signals. the lone switch in the tunnel is a v-tag switch

I read somewhere that there were switches activated by the turn signals on the trolley (like down Woodland & Island). Is this true?

OK your explanation about the passing siding at the west end of Girad is good, BUT: on the day I rode, the 10 was out of service, the tracks are all torn up on the 10 this summer. So it was a 15 car that ended its run once it turned east and stopped on what looked like the main. Then another 15 car came around the curve from the same direction the 15 had just came from and passed BUT picked up passengers. The motorman of the sitting car set in the middle of the car taking a break.

Was this just a 15 car coming from a barn to start service or likely a 15 that just passed? It does afterall look like tracks went off to the north in the outer part of that loop, where the westbound segment of the loops turns to what I would call south, for a block or two before turning back east.

Quinn wrote:

jtaeffner wrote: 1/1a/1b. switches that are not normally used except in special cases are manually thrown, i.e. the motormen gets out with a switch iron and physically throws it over. switches that are often thrown, like lancaster and girard, are what are called v-tag switches. there is a large electromagnetic cylinder in the street, connected to the switch mechanism. the route is programmed in to the software on the car and it throws the switch automatically, or failing that, the motorman can actuate it with his turn signals. the lone switch in the tunnel is a v-tag switch

I read somewhere that there were switches activated by the turn signals on the trolley (like down Woodland & Island). Is this true?

yes

train2 wrote:OK your explanation about the passing siding at the west end of Girad is good, BUT: on the day I rode, the 10 was out of service, the tracks are all torn up on the 10 this summer. So it was a 15 car that ended its run once it turned east and stopped on what looked like the main. Then another 15 car came around the curve from the same direction the 15 had just came from and passed. Was this just a 15 car coming from a barn to start service or likely a 15 that just passed? It does afterall look like tracks went off to the north in the outer part of that loop, where the westbound segment of the loops turns to what I would call south, for a block or two before turning back east.

most likely a 15 car heading in to callowhill

Also a little neat thing about the V-tag system. The K Cars' and the PCCIIs' V-tag systems are detailed as such that for when they pull the cars in to Elmwood yard the operator can program into the system what yard track they want to store the car at from console and when they pull into the depot property each switch will line in up accordingly without any further activity from the operator. It's pretty neat to watch in action.

Looking at Aerial photos it appears only Elmwood is open air, the others look mostly closed in buildings? If i had a time ot visit does anyone have any comments on photography at each?

train2 wrote:Looking at Aerial photos it appears only Elmwood is open air, the others look mostly closed in buildings? If i had a time ot visit does anyone have any comments on photography at each?

to be perfectly honest with you, all three are in pretty crumby areas, i wouldn't go near any one of them if inepta didn't pay me to. that being said, callowhill is a very pretty building, despite it's neglected state and modifications.

Isn't Elmwood the one visible from the Marcus Hook regional rail trains? They go a bit quick going south to really see anything, but going north Amtrak generally slows Septa down before crossing them over at Phil, you get a good look on the right hand side, but photography from the train isn't so good

Limited-Clear wrote:Isn't Elmwood the one visible from the Marcus Hook regional rail trains?

Yep.

I'll just second what Limited Clear posted: the northbound train passes a signal bridge just north of Darby, and the cab signal drops right after that, in time to start slowing the train down by the time you reach Elmwood. You'll get a better view than any you could get from the street -- as well as seeing some PCC IIs and work equipment.

Callowhill is getting some serious refitting that should be over by November. Doors, windows, electrical and plumbing overall, as well as internal improvements for the employees.

Woodland is a heavy repair facility. The inside of the building houses shops for body work, machine shops, repairs, as well as major overhaul. The building is "U" shaped and has a transfer table in the middle. On the Southwest corner, is a Bridges and Buildings shop.

Elmwood is the depot for the 10,11,13,34,36. They sometimes have PCCII's as well. One or more work cars can be found here. The old track car is a Septa Orange PCC.

Elmwood and Woodland were built in the early 80's. Callowhill is over 100 years old. My favorite part of callowhill is the large space on the second floor of transporation that has "Band Room" in gilded letters on the glass door.

Victory Depot is another amazing place. Huge.

lefty wrote:Callowhill is getting some serious refitting that should be over by November. Doors, windows, electrical and plumbing overall, as well as internal improvements for the employees.

Woodland is a heavy repair facility. The inside of the building houses shops for body work, machine shops, repairs, as well as major overhaul. The building is "U" shaped and has a transfer table in the middle. On the Southwest corner, is a Bridges and Buildings shop.

Elmwood is the depot for the 10,11,13,34,36. They sometimes have PCCII's as well. One or more work cars can be found here. The old track car is a Septa Orange PCC.

Elmwood and Woodland were built in the early 80's. Callowhill is over 100 years old. My favorite part of callowhill is the large space on the second floor of transporation that has "Band Room" in gilded letters on the glass door.

the 10 runs out of callowhill.