Train delay: 8 locomotives stand in way of rail car expansio

Let me see if I have this right. So far, I think we can agree that:

1. VRE cars have freed up Shoreline East coaches that COULD be used to supplement service into GCT on the New Haven line, but MN/CTDOT do not have any available engines to pull them;

2. Only current diesel that is suitable/sized right for service into GCT is the GE Genesis;

3. GE will not make "custom" Genesis units unless the order is for more than 15, which CTDOT does not need;

4. The REAL solution, M-8's (in whatever configuration) are years and years away;

5. MN/CTDOT will not touch the FL-9ACs it has on the property because they were too unreliable after their rebuilds, and now have been out of service too long; and

6. CTDOT has ~$40 million to spend on engines/MUs.

Is there really no way to use the FL-9ACs, even if they have (another) makeover to solve the problems created by the last remanufacturing? Couldn't they be used as a stop-gap solution, given the bind that CTDOT is in?

All but #1 is accurate. Shoreline East trains consist of SPV's with the motors taken out and older Bombardier equipment. CDOT could free up about 7 Bombardier coaches to go on the NHV Main by substituting the 5 coaches on the mini bombs to Danbury, and 2 for the Waterbury. I am not familiar with the Harlem Line but I know they run mini trains between So. East & Wassaic. The VRE could stay on the SLE trains and farm out the older coaches on the Branches. The answer lies in Hartford when the open up the purse strings and spends close to a Billion to build the next generation of MU's.

Seems to me when it comes to engines they need to start thinking outside of the box. Maybe see if there's a way to build something entirely new, along the lines of Railpower's 'Green goat'. Hook up HEP, find a way to run it off battery power when in the tunnels...maybe reuse some of those old FL9 carbodies.

Then again, it could flop harder an LIRR DEs... I wonder though if there's some type of grant they could apply for to build something new as described above to build one and try it out.

ATK wrote:Some random thoughts:

IIRC, it takes 15 locomotives to run Amtrak's Empire Service. At any given time, one can be out for maintenance, another one or two out of service for other repairs. No way is Amtrak going to lease out any of their P32ACDM's.

The P40's were built in '93, not '96. Amtrak's first order of P42DC's were built in 1996.

I see a lot of posts with the magic number of "15", as if tomorrow CDOT showed up on GE's door with a purchase order and a very large check that it would be a done deal. In my opinion, GE is going to think long and hard about wanting to jump back into the realm of dual modes. The P32ACDM's were/are a huge headache for GE. Lots of reliability issues. Poor reliability and warranty failures equals money out of GE's pocket. The other point is that the market for dual modes is way too small -- simply put there's not enough money to be made. When you build 1000+ locomotives of the same design for railroads like BNSF and UP over the course of several years, a small order of 15 locomotives which are of a unique and special design, it just doesn't make sense. Small special orders like that are not worth GE's time. I would be very surprised to see GE ever build another dual mode locomotive.

Is it possible that someday down the road the NJT may want to jump on the DM bandwagon to offer one seat rides into NYP from their diesel lines? Does anyone know when, and if, NJT will ever be in the market for new diesles? Also, I have heard that the 2 tracks under the Husdon have (LIRR style) 3rd rail. Can anyone confirm this?

RedSoxSuck wrote: Is it possible that someday down the road the NJT may want to jump on the DM bandwagon to offer one seat rides into NYP from their diesel lines? Does anyone know when, and if, NJT will ever be in the market for new diesles? Also, I have heard that the 2 tracks under the Husdon have (LIRR style) 3rd rail. Can anyone confirm this?

That's the problem, there are only two tracks under the Hudson and no capacity left. Bergen County riders would love a one seat ride to Manhattan, but it's not going to happen. There has been a lot of talk about another Hudson River tube, but the cost would be high. The benefit would be great for NYC, but not for NJ. It is obvious that NJT would like to see commuters, and business, stay in NJ.

nh chris wrote:Let me see if I have this right. So far, I think we can agree that:

1. VRE cars have freed up Shoreline East coaches that COULD be used to supplement service into GCT on the New Haven line, but MN/CTDOT do not have any available engines to pull them;

2. Only current diesel that is suitable/sized right for service into GCT is the GE Genesis;

3. GE will not make "custom" Genesis units unless the order is for more than 15, which CTDOT does not need;

4. The REAL solution, M-8's (in whatever configuration) are years and years away;

5. MN/CTDOT will not touch the FL-9ACs it has on the property because they were too unreliable after their rebuilds, and now have been out of service too long; and

6. CTDOT has ~$40 million to spend on engines/MUs.

Is there really no way to use the FL-9ACs, even if they have (another) makeover to solve the problems created by the last remanufacturing? Couldn't they be used as a stop-gap solution, given the bind that CTDOT is in?

Well, it seems to me that CDOT is in a jam. They've got a couple cars but no engines. But they also got a couple of bucks to spare, so it seems a solution could be:

With ~$40 mil to toss around, that should be enough for about 8-10 GE dual mode diesels. Perhaps CDOT should get together with MN to buy a combined order from GE for 15 or so units. (NJ transit could have gone with dual modes instead of the PL42AC's, even if they we're going to use the electric capacity now they could have utilized it at some future time.) I know CDOT only needs about 2 or 3 units now, but whatever engines either MN or CDOT doesn't use out of the order now could be used to retire F-units on the branch lines, and could be kept for other uses in the future (Springfield line).

JayMan wrote:

nh chris wrote:Let me see if I have this right. So far, I think we can agree that:

1. VRE cars have freed up Shoreline East coaches that COULD be used to supplement service into GCT on the New Haven line, but MN/CTDOT do not have any available engines to pull them;

2. Only current diesel that is suitable/sized right for service into GCT is the GE Genesis;

3. GE will not make "custom" Genesis units unless the order is for more than 15, which CTDOT does not need;

4. The REAL solution, M-8's (in whatever configuration) are years and years away;

5. MN/CTDOT will not touch the FL-9ACs it has on the property because they were too unreliable after their rebuilds, and now have been out of service too long; and

6. CTDOT has ~$40 million to spend on engines/MUs.

Is there really no way to use the FL-9ACs, even if they have (another) makeover to solve the problems created by the last remanufacturing? Couldn't they be used as a stop-gap solution, given the bind that CTDOT is in?

Well, it seems to me that CDOT is in a jam. They've got a couple cars but no engines. But they also got a couple of bucks to spare, so it seems a solution could be:

With ~$40 mil to toss around, that should be enough for about 8-10 GE dual mode diesels. Perhaps CDOT should get together with MN to buy a combined order from GE for 15 or so units. (NJ transit could have gone with dual modes instead of the PL42AC's, even if they we're going to use the electric capacity now they could have utilized it at some future time.) I know CDOT only needs about 2 or 3 units now, but whatever engines either MN or CDOT doesn't use out of the order now could be used to retire F-units on the branch lines, and could be kept for other uses in the future (Springfield line).

That's a thought, but I am pretty sure that MNR has all the Gennies it needs. I even heard that they are buying a few from Amtrak, so I highly doubt that they will have any interest in any new ones.

Well, CDOT will have to think of something, otherwise they will have bunch of freed-up coaches that aren't going anywhere.

CDOT is really in a pickle here. One could wonder what they thought would haul all these coaches. Though, compared to the other coaches CDOT has. the VRE cars are quite nice. And they were quite cheap considering. So it probbably wasnt a bad deal.

The FL9AC units have to be the best solution. CDOT should have them sent somewhere and have them repaired and put into service. These units are going to be likely the only thing you will get this winter.

CDOT needs to worry about MN operations on the NH Line as well as keep on rehabilitating the line especially between Bridgept and NH. All the VRE coaches will work on SLE. Let Amtrak worry about increasing the service on the Springfield Line.

ive seen 2014 all week on the waterbury and the third rail shoes are on and intact on the rear trucks of the engine, i dont know if they work but they are there do they work? or could thy?

The rear shoes and beams are there but no longer hooked up.
their left for snow/ice scraping on third rail only.
the Cables and fuse boxes are removed and TMT and other electrical gear is disabled.


Its no use running a FL9 in third rail mode anymore since the cars need 480 volt from the HEP, the 480 is not fed of third rail but only off a Caterpillar Diesel.

And still the FL9AC sit.....

Going back to Dutch's post on the 21st, how do railroads using slugs get away with HV cables between mother and slug? Not to question either Dutch or take on the FRA, of course. Just curious- Must be a loophole somewhere-

Slugs are considered permanently coupled and the power stops when locomotive is shut down. on electric cars specialy with third rail the power is on all the time unless the set is off third rail.