Train Consists

A few ?

1. Does Septa mix there equipment in Ex in one train II, III, IV, IV, II

2. What is the longest train septa can run?

3. What is the shortest train they can run?

4. Why is the control pannel of the(II's I believe) on the left side?

Njt4300 wrote:A few ?

1. Does Septa mix there equipment in Ex in one train II, III, IV, IV, II

2. What is the longest train septa can run?

3. What is the shortest train they can run?

4. Why is the control pannel of the(II's I believe) on the left side?

1.Yes they do I saw some IIs, IIIs and IVs all in the same consist
2.The longest I have seen is 6 but I belive they can run as many 8
3.one they do this on the Cynwood branch
4.I have no clue

The SL III's have the control stand on the opposite side. These Saint Louis cars were originally designed by the Pennsy to operate on the Harrisburg Line and to accomodate quicker boarding by having the front end accessable to boarding passengers.

with MUs you can run very long consists- i've seen an 11 car deadhead going through 30th.

there was an incident where amtrak had a signal(?) problem with single car consists, so single silverliners are not allowed on amtrak trackage methinks

I am sure thay are because I was in 30th street yesterday and I saw two separate one car constists, one comming from Cynwyd and one going to Cynwyd.

they may be avoiding amtrak trackage, or the rule may have been lifted

What is the longest train they can run?

Around 1997 or 98 there was a serious rainstorm that knocked out service on several lines. For some reason the R6 was still operating (usually the tracks flood around Conshy) so I squeezed on. Just north of Temple we came up behind another train that had shorted out. The crews tried coupling the two consists together and were able to operate using the rear train as a pusher. Around 22nd St we came up to another dead consist and somehow they got contol of all three sets!

Final consist size - 14 cars

benltrain wrote:they may be avoiding amtrak trackage, or the rule may have been lifted

There's no way for a train headed out on the Cynwyd to avoid Amtrak trackage since it runs on the former PRR, now Amtrak main line from ZOO out to 52nd St. I believe what SEPTA did was to modify a few cars so that their operating as a single will appear like a married pair to the signal system. The Cynwyd seems to draw from a somewhat limited pool of vehicles, it almost always seems to have at least one former Airport line Silverliner III, and one Silverliner IV single assigned to it on any given day. I've never thought of keeping track of the numbers of those IVs, but I believe when I used to wander around University City I regularly saw the same EMUs on the R6 Cynwyd runs.

If SEPTA did modify the Silverliners specifically for the purpose of running singles on the Cynwyd then that's a pretty disgusting waste of money. The ridership potential is definitely there along the Cynwyd branch, the Rt44 shows that, SEPTA just seems to be doing almost everything in their power to drive it away. It almost feels like a form of psychological warfare that SEPTA went out of their way to send singles out on the Cynwyd, as though they're telling those commuters something to the effect of "You don't matter so much we're just sending you one car".

IIRC many years ago the RRD often used single cars on light-density runs throughout the system. I can't verify (Matt? Walt?) but I believe that the FRA changed its rules to require at least two cars at all times for any runs involving shared trackage.

So if that's a true scenario, Cynwyd is actually returning to what was SOP many years ago. The downside is that you're correct, the average commuter isn't going to know about FRA regs and will simply interpret a single car as being some kind of overgrown Toonerville Trolley.

JeffK wrote:IIRC many years ago the RRD often used single cars on light-density runs throughout the system. I can't verify (Matt? Walt?) but I believe that the FRA changed its rules to require at least two cars at all times for any runs involving shared trackage.

I can confirm the single MU runs (but the most recent examples I can think of other than Cynwyd were north of Fern Rock during the RailWorks(NSM) shutdown. I don't have the FRA regs at hand.

So if that's a true scenario, Cynwyd is actually returning to what was SOP many years ago. The downside is that you're correct, the average commuter isn't going to know about FRA regs and will simply interpret a single car as being some kind of overgrown Toonerville Trolley.

The RDG used to run single unit MU's to Lansdale years ago.

Yeah, they definitely operate single cars to Cynwyd. Really can't justify a married pair because they never fill half a single car. Sometimes, though rarely, SEPTA will operate a single car if there is equipment shortage/overage at an outlying point.

And for those of you who ride the R-3 West Trenton/Media-Elywyn or the R-6 Norristown during rush hour, mixed consists are the norm.

The signal circuitry was adjusted to accomodate single car operation between Zoo and Valley to permit the operation of single car trains. This work was completed about 4 years ago. Septa funded all the work.

speaking of cynwyd, they really need to convert it to a rapid trainsit/ light rail, even without SVM. More trains would mean more ridership

benltrain wrote:speaking of cynwyd, they really need to convert it to a rapid trainsit/ light rail, even without SVM. More trains would mean more ridership

Why do that? At this point the Cynwyd line is our last best hope for getting Diesel trains to Reading from a near-Center City station. 30th St Lower Level is likely the best terminal we're going to get for diesel trains in the Center City area. If Amtrak won't play ball and 30th St LL is out then the Upper Level remains an option, even though it would require reverse moves or a trip through Powellton Yard to reach the platforms. It would be an unmitigated nightmare trying to turn trains at Temple, and anywhere north of there out to Norristown you're counting on a timed transfer with the R6 Norristown.

By making the Cynwyd line a rapid transit or light rail line you cut off 30th St Station from the Norristown line and restrict all traffic between them to electrically powered trains. With the Cynwyd line in place as a commuter line the Manayunk PRR bridge can be repaired and returned to service, with a connector built at Ivy Ridge. This gets trains from Reading and Quakertown into 30th St Station, which means screwwing around with dual-modes, timed transfers or other things which could go wrong.

Finally, where is this light rail/rapid transit line going to go? A rapid transit line is going to require a new line to be built from 52nd St to wherever you intend to join it into the existing systems. OTOH a light rail can run on the streets, and doing so use the Rt 10's track down to the 15 and then perhaps the City Subway Branch into the 23's track. However, the somewhat affluent riders on the R6 Cynwyd and others from Ivy Ridge aren't likely to be overly enthusiastic about a trolley which places them on the street in Overbrook and such.

Much of the benefit that could be provided at great cost by turning the Cynwyd branch into an LRT or HRT subway could be provided at a relatively minor cost simply by doing some relatively minor improvements. Restore the second track and signals, rebuild the line to Ivy Ridge, eliminate the Route 44's Surekill Expressway run, make the Cynwyd stations (Wynnefield Ave, Bala and Cynwyd, perhaps Barmouth) Zone 1, and actually run hourly or half hourly service on the line.