Toronto to Calgary (hypothesis)

I was just wondering a rather simple question actually. This isn't a question of money, potential ridership or political realities which are a whole different area. I was just wondering what the schedule was for the old Canadian between Toronto and how many sets of equipment would be required to protect tri-weekly service between Toronto and Calgary on the pre-1990 schedule. And I'm talking about terminating in Calgary, not going all the way through to Vancouver.

I'm guessing that it would take 5 sets, but I don't know for 100% certain. That's 2 sets on the Eastbound runs and 2 sets making westbound trips plus one set in rotation for maintenance. This route would be CP all the way Toronto - Sudbury - Thunder Bay - Capreol - Winnipeg - Regina - Calgary.

At present the Canadian requires 4 sets on regular service. There are a few issues with the routing you suggest though.
- Capreol, just north of Sudbury, is on CN tracks.
- Service from Union station in Toronto would have to use CN tracks. Interestingly, because of an agreement between CN and CP, #1 uses CP tracks in Parry Sound ON, while # uses the CN tracks.
- The old CP station in Winnipeg is now used for other purposes. The old CN station is already owned by VIA, and has a better location and building. This train you propose would likely use CN tracks between Transcona, MB and Portage la Prairie, MB.

Before being chopped in 1990, VIA's Canadian on (mostly) CP tracks took a little more than two days to travel between Toronto and Calgary (including about an hour to shuffle the Montreal and Toronto consists at Sudbury). Assuming a similar schedule could be met today and allowing time for the train to be turned and serviced, a single train set should be able to make a round trip in around five days. In that case, a three times per week schedule could be covered with just 3 train sets with plenty of time to spare eliminating the need to have an extra set to protect it.

The 1986 summer timetable had the westbound Canadian departing Toronto at 12:35 (ET) and arriving in Calgary at 13:35 (MT) two days later. The return trip departed Calgary at 15:35 and arrived in Toronto at 19:45.

Thanks for the great answers. For some reason, I thought Capreol was on the route of the old Canadian. Thought I saw pictures of the Station with the pre-1990 Canadian calling on that station. I thought both the Super Continental and the per-1990 Canadian called at Union Staion in Winnipeg.

My idea for the train would be one that FED the Rocky Mountaineer instead of competing with it by not proceeding West of Calgary. The old 1:35 PM arrival time would be ideal for Westbound passengers to have half a day and an evening in Calgary before continuing on the Rocky Mountaineer the next day. Eastbound travelers would spend an evening and the following morning in Calgary before heading East in the afternoon on the restored service.

That sounds like a good idea, but VIA is unlikely to go to Calgary unless they can continue to Vancouver. I have been unable to determine as to which station VIA used in the 80s for the Canadian. But it would be nice to see some more traffic at Union station. The rumours I've heard about VIA considering splitting The Canadian at Winnipeg fascinate me. There is a tower that overlooks the trainshed, and it would be a cool thing to watch. I'd also be interested what VIA would use as a switcher. Oh well, I shouldn't get my hopes up, what would be nicer is a daily train to Toronto.

kmillard wrote:Thanks for the great answers. For some reason, I thought Capreol was on the route of the old Canadian. Thought I saw pictures of the Station with the pre-1990 Canadian calling on that station. I thought both the Super Continental and the per-1990 Canadian called at Union Staion in Winnipeg.

My idea for the train would be one that FED the Rocky Mountaineer instead of competing with it by not proceeding West of Calgary. The old 1:35 PM arrival time would be ideal for Westbound passengers to have half a day and an evening in Calgary before continuing on the Rocky Mountaineer the next day. Eastbound travelers would spend an evening and the following morning in Calgary before heading East in the afternoon on the restored service.

Why not take the hypothesis a step further, and continue north to Edmonton? It wouldn't be a reliable corridor train, but there'd still be short-haul traffic between Calgary and Edmonton, and it would connect back into the VIA system rather than depending solely on the Rocky Mountaineer for western connections.

How about something along these lines:

The new super-transcontinental would service between Toronto & North Bay on the CN line (servicing Washago, Gravenhurst, Bracebridge, Huntsville & South River along the way). Then it would cut across to Sudbury from North Bay on the OVR line (servicing Sturgeon Falls along the way). From Sudbury, it would follow the current Sudbury-White River train line through Chapleau, White River, and continue through Schreiber, Thunder Bay, Dryden, Kenora & onto Winnipeg. From Winnipeg, you pass through Portage-la-Prairie, Regina, Calgary & then North to Red Deer & Edmonton.

This would offer people along the Northlander route an option to take a train in the afternoon if they wanted to go to North Bay (instead of early at 8:40 am) or Sudbury (instead of late at 10 pm on the Canadian).

I mean, the ideal would be to offer service from Montréal - Ottawa - Pembroke - North Bay - Sudbury & then onto Thunder Bay & Western Canada.