The NMRA needs to be reformed

For about the last ten years, the NMRA has not been a joining force for model railroaders... what has it been? They publish a very lame "magazine" (the often-lamented "ScaleRails"), they dont do much to encourage beginners to join... we have an expensive headquarters building in CHATTANOOGA (who voted that one in??)...

What do you all think?

-otto-
NMRA NER member

My goodness, Otto, next to "All the Bad Things About MR", there's no other topic that will get people stirred up! I have a whole section about the NMRA in my essay The Sociology of Model Railroading. (Warning: long and controversial; some people find it upsetting.)

My current interest is in whether they've "reformed" their finances following the Y2K dues increase. I see a number of references to what appears to be extravagant travel, including a recent RMC editorial where Hal Carstens talks about how the NMRA flew him to Sacramento (with an unspecified number of others) on a junket to inspect a possible site for the Howell Day Museum.

The problem I see is that a lot of modelers feel obligated to pay for things they ought to be reassessing -- some guys feel like they have to be in a club, so they pay $x per month for that, whether they enjoy it or not. Some guys feel obligated to pay $29 per year for membership in Trainorders.com (and then post on free forums!). Some guys feel like they have to buy MR every month. And of course, some guys feel like they have to join the NMRA. All these things add up to a serious dent in the hobby budget -- seems like you could get a BLI loco for the money you didn't spend on all these items in a year.

There are things the NMRA could be doing. One thing I suggested in my essay was for the NMRA to offer a "rating" system for on line forums, similar to the film rating system -- it would cover whether the moderators allowed bad language, atmosphere of flaming, overall level of spelling and grammar in posts (conscientious parents, I think, wouldn't want their kids picking up bad habits). THAT would turn some heads!

What should the NMRA be doing?

That's a good question.

Keeping a tight control on manufacturing standards is a good one. Remember when a lot of products used to carry the "conforms to NMRA standards" stamp on the packaging? How many do that now? Issuing new standards for electronics as we progress into the 21st century is another. The DCC standard is a great example. I think that the NMRA needs to continue developing standards like these, and making sure that manufacturers comply.

I think the bigger question is what social reward do we get from joining the NMRA? Many join for the social aspects- meeting other hobbyists, going to conventions, giving clinics, attending clinics... is the NMRA fulfilling that role, or are many members now just "going through the motions" to get Master Model Railroader status the way unmotivated teenage boys blithely push themselves through merit badges to get Eagle Scout?

I'm not even sure what I want to get out of the NMRA, but I feel compelled to join, or else risk "not being taken seriously" by other modelers.

-otto-

Or try to raise the standards of swap meets and train shows (instead of holding some bad ones itself).

Or look for innovative ways to publicize the hobby.

Or look for ways to get the media off stereotypes of railroading (in newspapers, for instance, trains always chug) or hobbyists (who are always portrayed as harmless eccentrics).

NMRA?

Isn't that the Northern Montana Rifle Association?

I have never considered the NMRA relevant to model railroading, although way back in 1986 they were very helpful with the school project that got me started in model railroading.

MR Mag was far more influential to me and I think many other modelers.

Lets see dues for NMRA are at least $30 a year?, subscription to MR, $30 a year.

Even with its watered down content, MR is a better value than NMRA wouldn't you agree Otto? :o)

The biggest benefit average members get from the NMRA is from the local and regional organizations. The quality and frequency of their acitivities can be excellent -- as they apparently are in the Pacific Coast Region, for instance, but not in my area, coverd by the Pacific Southwest Region. The biggest single thing that could be done would be for all the local and regional organizations to commit to certain minimum activity levels. Instead, there are deadwood or moribund parts of the NMRA.

The other problem is that there are seems to be sort of a standard NMRA officer personality -- organization dependent, authoritarian, not terribly bright, doctrinaire. These guys are self-perpetuating. (They are the kind of guys who put their NMRA membership number and their titles in the organization on their forum or e-mail signatures, for instance.) If you could get different personalities in, it would be a real step ahead.

While MR is still a good resource for info and projects... this hobby is about people and connecting with others who have like interests- which is why you might want to join. The NMRA should also help promote that connection.

The railroad's perception in the media? Leave that to the AAR and the FRA.

-otto-

jwb1323 wrote:a standard NMRA officer personality -- organization dependent, authoritarian, not terribly bright, doctrinaire. These guys are self-perpetuating.

Gee sounds like your talking about the folks over at Model Railroader as well. (Atleast the discriptions fit the type)

Seriously, the NMRA makes me sick. What turned me off from the NMRA was the self perpetuating people, who would throw their 2 cents into every conversation, as if they were representing the NMRA's official point of view. Follow that with the "M.M.R." status BULL, and I quickly came to the conclusion that it was a bunch of baby boomers, who obviously fell short of their goals in life, so by joining the NMRA, they make themselves "feel important".

I can find better uses for 30 bucks a year, than the NMRA... Just for a bone, I'll throw out the B&O Society, atleast you see your money go to work.

WANF 11 ---> Chaser,

NMRA = Northern Minnesota Racing Association (Sunday! Sunday! Sunday! Be there! The Brainard International Speedway!)


All silliness aside, you guys do raise some interesting points.

- Manufacturing Standards: Standardization is good, ensures near universal compatibility among manufacturers (to a point... look at computers, PC vs. Macintosh).

- Social Aspects: that's why I was a member of the Winona Railroad Club while I was in college in Winona and why I post on the forums here. It's good (dare I say, essential?) for hobbyists (sp?) to have an outlet to meet and have a healthy exchange of ideas and opinions about the hobby, which is what inspires progress.

- "Master" Model Railroader: Just what makes a "master" model railroader? Do you REALLY need to be a member of the NMRA to be one? Kitbash this, scratchbuild that, weather this thing over here...? I'll probably meet a good majority of the qualifications building my new layout, although I'm not currently a member of the NMRA, nor do I expect to ever have the title bestowed upon me, except by my peers. How many others in the hobby have met the qualifications and aren't called "master" model railroaders?

As for not being taken seriously by my peers, I'm a Midwestern hayseed from a rural farming community and have never really been taken seriously in my life (especially from my peers from larger, metropolitan areas), so that's nothing new to me. I'm just going to let my layout(s), projects and other accomplishments speak for me.

But then again, do we really need to take things so seriously? Didn't one of our hobby's publications once claim that "Model Railroading is FUN?"

- Pomposity: It's been stated here that the NMRA (and MR) is overun with orgaization dependent, authoritarian, intelegent deprived, self-perpetuating, self-appointed spokesmen for the organization, etc. But doesn't EVERY orgainization have people like that? Unfortunately, there are those who have egos the size of C-855s (hey, I'm an ALCohaulic) who think they're the creator's gift to the hobby/organization/company? (Believe me, I delt with my share of 'em in Architecture school!)


What's the solution? I dunno. Again, I would say to seek reform from within, but as has been mentioned, most are complaicent and don't want to "rock the boat," lest they be ostracized (sp?) from the group.

Now, Joe mentioned that the organization is overun with baby boomers, weren't you guys the ones who protested anything and everything in the 60's? The ones who stood up for what you believed in? Aren't we 20/30-Something "Gen X-ers" supposed to be the apathetic "slackers?" So why the role reversal here? Do we need to have to have a rally similar to Woodstock ('69, not '99) to get people motivated here or what? YOU HAVE A VOICE, USE IT!!!!!!


Ok, I've had my rant. I've bloviated enough, I'll let you guys opine with any pithy comments you may have. :D

Interesting enough, I brought a copy of the April 2004 Mainline Modeler yesterday (it had some articles I wanted to read), and there was some discussion about the NMRA both in the letters column and "Mainline Commentary" (apparently there was a very involved commentary about the NMRA and how it's going in the wrong direction in the Jan 2004 issue).

Anyway, what people want from the NMRA seems to be:

The aforemention product standards ("Conformity Warrents").
Affordable insurance, both for layout/collection coverage, and liability in terms of open houses.
Outreach to the younger crowd, as it seems (well, ancedotally) most new modelers nowadays are 30/40 somethings who were exposed to the hobby as children/pre-teens, lost interest during college, and then came back decades later - well, we need to get exposure to the children and pre-teens of today (apparently the most effectively methods are displays in malls/public spaces, and demos/lectures at schools).

The library I guess is a nice idea, although I haven't yet have had a need to use its services (seemed a bit pricey, too).

Not to sound age discriminatory, but I am going to be blunt about my feelings. (When am I not?)

Look, the "baby boomer" generation has a general consensus that only "they" can effectively run the country, wether it be in government in any level, or the private sector, or in societies.

They have not, nor will not relinquish control of anything willingly till its the last man standing for them.

I personally am tired of seeing all these 40 and ups in the magazine press, as if they are the only model railroaders worthy of anything in the world.

Are not people in their 20s capable modelers? I know two personally who are undoubtably better modelers than me, but because of the generation gap, their elders do not take them seriously.

I am also tired of the only "image" a model railroader can have is one in a golf shirt, in front of his layout, with a forced smile. ITS SOO FAKE!

I said in another thread, and I'l repeat myself here, I know a good handful of model rails who are far from the "white collar", "White Male", "Lots of Money" image that they perpetrate upon the rest of us, as if we are all inferior because we aren't some sort of consultant for big business.

Think about it...

Last time you saw:

White Male - all the time
Black Male - occasional "token"
Hispanic Male - Once that I recall
Asian Male - only from Japan, and Rarely.
Arabic Male - Never.

Anyone Female - very rare.

Why is this soo important? Simple. In order to encourage new modelers into the hobby, usually its their parents that expose them to it. In order for their parents to "WANT" to expose them to it, they (the parents) need to feel that its a hobby thats open to everyone, and not just the small clique of white men who wear white collars, and have lots of money.

I cannot count how many times I met people at open houses, toy and train shows, etc, that were either single moms, or minorities who honestly felt that model railroading was only a rich mans hobby.

Many people think that Lionel Trains are the only trains out there. They don't realize that there is HO, N, O, S, G, etc.

I hooked one kid, and his single parent mom on N scale because after a lengthy discussion, "mom" realized that her son liked small toys (I.E. Zip-Zaps, Micro Machines, etc.)

After giving her some books, and showing her how to shop ebay for those 80 dollar N scale atlas locos, for 30 bucks, her son is on his way to his first 2-1/2 by 5 foot layout, which he stores under his bed when not in use. Granted, its only a loop of track, with 2 passing sidings, a 2 track yard, and 2 industrial spurs, all flat on a 1/4 sheet of plywood, with some brown paint, and green grass (courtesy of woodland scenics) but being she is on a limited budget, its a slow process. Not bad for a 11 year old.

Point here is this.. The hobby needs exposure. It needs to be exposed in a way where everyone feels that its not just the rich mans hobby. Magazines need to be placed in supermarkets, and not just hobby shops. Impulse buying of magazines works, thats why Cosmo has such high circulation.

Hell, even the National Enquirer sells more nationwide than Model Railroader.

Very rarely do I see MR on sale at Borders Books, Barnes and Noble, etc. Why? People go to these places looking for things to read.

Same thing with Books, either it be a Morning Sun in Color book, or a modeling book. You go to the trains and transportation or hobby sections of these stores, and the selection outright stinks like rotten flesh. Then they tell you "But we can order it"..

Well, if its not there, right in front of them, most likely they won't even consider Model Railroading as a hobby, the light bulb will not go off in their head, period.

Im not even college educated really, and I know how to expose the hobby. Why is it then a bunch of baby boomers at the NMRA cannot figure this out?

I need to calm down now, before I pop a blood vessel on my forehead.

Ok, we're going around and around again on the NMRA.

IMO - The NMRA is people. Those people are modelers, railfans and historians. They have helped standardize the hobby. They have helped promote the hobby whether you have noticed it or not.

They maintain a web presence for the 'Introduction to Model Railroading at:
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/

They have the Achievement Program FOR THOSE WHO WANT IT. I have no intention of ever becoming an MMR (Master Model Railroader). Others do and that is great especially when those MMRs share their talents with others.

If you want to see how the NMRA can work, visit the Central Indiana Division at:
http://cid.railfan.net/
or my personal web site at:
http://cid.railfan.net/eci_new.html

And for the future, the folks in the CID fun a program of clinics AT EVERY MEET specifically for kids. We call it KIT (Kids In Trains) program where kids assemble a model railcar or other simple kit or scenery item with the assistance of an NMRA member. We don't do the work, we advise and assist. About half of the kids are girls. (We have several women modelers and NMRA members as well.)

We move the Meets around Central Indiana to help make our Meets more accessible to all, not just NMRA members, and it works.

If you are a member, you can purchase the Layout and Collection Insurance. This is a better rate than I have ever seen from homeowners insurance. I also have used the Kalmbach Library several times with good success and I have the InfoPak CD with the Data Sheets and a wealth of other info.

What do you want out of the NMRA? It is only as good as the folks in it. It's only as good as your efforts.

Enough...

I wish the NMRA home office put out the same effort that Gateway does:

http://www.gatewaynmra.org/

=otto=

As I've said here and on my web site, even though the most important contact individual members have with the NMRA is with the local and regional organizations, the quality of these organizations varies widely. My own LA Division/PSR puts on, as far as I can tell, ONE poorly publicized event a year -- a very poor modular and garden railway meet at a local county facility. Other regions and divisions clearly do a better job.

However, members in local divisions have to deal with PEOPLE, and PEOPLE can be hidebound, lazy, discourteous, cliquish, so on and so forth. The normal way to handle this would be via elections to put in a better bunch to run things, but even if you can find them, in the NMRA you've got the good-ol-boy nominating committee keeping them out.

The national is a separate problem, but it seems to me that it's basically a money pit that keeps dues high through excesszive travel expenses, excessive headquarters overhead, and so forth. To the extent that a local organization can keep itself vital and distance itself from the national, greagt. But it's a problem for the NMRA that it can't maintain consistent quality.

It's not an argument in the NMRA's favor that it once set standards (which could well have been set without the NMRA -- look at N, for instance). The problem is that the organization can't reform itself.

As a few individuals have already pointed out, the NMRA is only as good as the people that choose to get involved. I too am not thrilled with some of the things that I see HQ doing, but I believe that at the end of the day the sum of their efforts benefits the hobby - could be better, but still the hobby benefits. I belong to the division in Cincinnati and we have a great local division that is very active, puts on great monthly meetings and two great shows each year. The local division promotes the hobby and tries to involve tomorro's youth wherever possible. Our local Division also was one of only two in the country where we don't have to pay local dues - but you still have to belong to the National to belong to the local Division.
The one thing that I hear in this thread (and others) is people complaining about "why doesn't the NMRA......" fill in the blank. I'm not sure who everyone thinks "the NMRA" is, but it's just oridinary everyday people. And if you don't like the direction the NMRA is going, or what their doing, you NEED TO GET INVOLVED! Sitting comfortably behind your keyboard has little chance of tangibly changing/influencing the NMRA - you need to get invovled - and in fact I believe the NMRA would welcome you! That is by far the biggest problem we have in the Cincy Division - getting enough volunteers and/or involvement. Is the NMRA perfect? No - but not many things are - it can only be improved by your involvement and constructive input! I yield the the balance of my time to the next RR enthusiast...