The future of the SEPTA fleet

NJTArrow2 wrote:Now since Septa is looking to possibly replace the AEM-7s with the ACS-64s, would this also include 2308 even though it is much newer?

I can't speak for SEPTA, but why would they want to keep the only ALP-44 in North America in revenue service longer than they need to?

Clearfield wrote:

NJTArrow2 wrote:Now since Septa is looking to possibly replace the AEM-7s with the ACS-64s, would this also include 2308 even though it is much newer?

I can't speak for SEPTA, but why would they want to keep the only ALP-44 in North America in revenue service longer than they need to?

Probably because they don't have much of a choice. Plus it's younger than the AEM-7s so it still has a lot of life left in it.

If the rumor is correct in the details that SEPTA is seeking an order of 10 locomotives, then that says that 2308 is as doomed as 2301-2307. Again, assuming that the rumor is correct in all particulars, and that SEPTA finds the money to make the order happen.

Given that the bomber fleet is still good to run for decades with fairly minimal overhaul, new locos are a cheap way to keep the fleet numbers up in the event of a Doomsday or near-Doomsday scenario. In the event of full Doomsday, I don't think it's a fifth line, but it's the difference between running full and running crush-loaded on the remaining four lines. (Of course, there are advantages to having the p/p fleet around in happier scenarios as well.)

NJTArrow2 wrote:Now since Septa is looking to possibly replace the AEM-7s with the ACS-64s, would this also include 2308 even though it is much newer?

Maybe they'll keep a couple for the wash/gel trains (that would solve the HEP issue) and as rescue locos since we no longer have any non-electrtified lines and they have to lease power every fall anyway. I know that's a lot of capital to keep on the property for limited use but if they're fully depreciated and have little value beyond scrap, it might be worth consideration.

Whelp, the ACS-64 just went from most likely for SEPTA to order, to highly unlikely:

http://nextcity.org/theworks/entry/mode ... s-2015-fra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fair use quote:

"Beginning in 2015, regulators and manufacturers expect the FRA to allow modern European designs on tracks throughout the country, running side by side with heavy freight at all times of day. There will be no special signaling requirements for trains purchased under the new rules, although a separate requirement for more advancing anti-collision signaling, called positive train control, is set to kick in around the same time...

The new rules have already been drafted and now await approval from various federal agencies, followed by a period of public review. Many in the industry don’t expect significant revisions to what the FRA’s safety committee has already drafted, and Lauby suggested that the new rules should clear the final hurdles sometime in 2015."

CComMack wrote:Whelp, the ACS-64 just went from most likely for SEPTA to order, to highly unlikely:

http://nextcity.org/theworks/entry/mode ... s-2015-fra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fair use quote:

"Beginning in 2015, regulators and manufacturers expect the FRA to allow modern European designs on tracks throughout the country, running side by side with heavy freight at all times of day. There will be no special signaling requirements for trains purchased under the new rules, although a separate requirement for more advancing anti-collision signaling, called positive train control, is set to kick in around the same time...

The new rules have already been drafted and now await approval from various federal agencies, followed by a period of public review. Many in the industry don’t expect significant revisions to what the FRA’s safety committee has already drafted, and Lauby suggested that the new rules should clear the final hurdles sometime in 2015."

I'm not sure that really changes anything. Taking any other off the shelf European design would still require modifications for use in the US (aside from the previous crash worthiness standards). It wouldn't be quite as simple as grabbing a Bombardier TRAXX locomotive and throwing on a ship tomorrow. On the other hand, the ACS-64 is already in production and ready to go.

This of course assumes SEPTA intends on keeping a push-pull fleet, which still has its advantages (and disadvantages).

SEPTA cannot wait until 2015 to make a decision on locos. That would push back any new loco delivery until 2018-19 at the earliest. They need to make the decision by this Jan. to have the Sprinter locos sometime in 2016. The AEM-7s are quickly running out of their useful life.

aem7 wrote:SEPTA cannot wait until 2015 to make a decision on locos. That would push back any new loco delivery until 2018-19 at the earliest. They need to make the decision by this Jan. to have the Sprinter locos sometime in 2016. The AEM-7s are quickly running out of their useful life.

After discussions I've had with SEPTA officials, I believe the only thing holding back the AMTRAK piggy-back order is funding.

I believe this would be funding OUTSIDE the normal capital budget, and I can't speculate where it would come from. I can speculate where it would not come from.

Whether worked hard or not, the AEM-7's have never had an overhaul, and fortunately, none of them have caught fire. Yet. Since there are no spares.......

Wagz, thanks for acknowledging that SEPTA might not retain push-pull, and that locomotive hauled coaches have advantages and disadvantages relative to MU's.

Again I wonder why so much concern about locomotives and coaches? Other than short term possible lower acquisition costs, and maybe slightly better performance on the precious few express trains, why do you guys devote so much effort to discussing what happens to about 10 trainsets? SEPTA will still be able to run hundreds of trains a day without using a single locomotive.

Yes, my foamer eyes like the variety, but I think the future of the SEPTA fleet rests with MU's. What would excite me is if they could get the MU's and the coaches compatible so we could have motor-trailer sets. How come nobody does that nowadays, last case I know of was the old Lackawanna.

Define "locomotive" ... they run with hundreds of them every day

Patrick Boylan wrote:Yes, my foamer eyes like the variety, but I think the future of the SEPTA fleet rests with MU's. What would excite me is if they could get the MU's and the coaches compatible so we could have motor-trailer sets. How come nobody does that nowadays, last case I know of was the old Lackawanna.

Because without a place for an engineer to operate from, people would clamor for bathrooms?

It's probably to ease turning at the ends of the line.
If you had a trailer, you'd either need 2nd powered MU on the end, or a cabcar at the end like the existing push-pulls.
But then it's just a "Junior" MU, and they might as well just put motors on it.

Speaking of which, if the couplers matched, could they operate mixed cabcars/Silverliners now??

In any case, I think an Silverliner V Combine would be cool. But wildly impractical. Paint it Tuscan while you're at it.

If you may recall, NJT floated a Multilevel MU concept using motor and trailer units.

Are these on the drawing board now?

If you just looked on the front page of this forum, you would've noticed a thread on then update of Patco car rebuilds. NO new cars for patco and nothing on drawing boards for septa broad street subway.

the b4 cars have plenty of life left in them, i wouldn't be surprised if they outlast the m4s. kawasaki makes a good product, and we all know budds are built to last.