Switch Targets

So I assume that switch targets for the main line were colored green (normal) and red (reverse)... What about yard tracks and sidings not on the main?

-otto-

switch targets (other than main track) are white for straight route, yellow for diverting.

DutchRailnut wrote:switch targets (other than main track) are white for straight route, yellow for diverting.

Interesting, thank you!

-otto-

Refer to the New York Central, October 1956, Book of Rules, page 101.

Darn I must have misplaced my copy...

Main track switches sometimes had white for straight, red for reverse. I also have seen rust for straight, and rust for diverging.

BR&P,

No doubt there were exceptions like on the New York Central 30th Street Branch but generally Rule 294 applied as displayed in the 1956 Book of Rules. The exception on the 30th Street Branch is in Special Instruction 294, ETT No. 4 of Oct. 26, 1958 as an example, and covered movements over double slip switches between West 35th St. and West 41st Street. A quick perusal of ETT's for Lines East did not disclose additional exceptions to the colors although the B&A targets were different in design as indicated in the TT Special Instructions.

BR&P did you see the exceptions you cited on the New York Central or some other railroad and what was the time frame?

Jack

Jack, I'm talking NYC, 1960's. Main track of a branch line, not the high iron. And to be honest while I'm 95% sure, I would not absolutely guarantee what I saw, that's going back a ways. But I'm mentally picturing the NYC high mast stands and sure THINK we had some white straight, red reverse. I DO know for a fact that at some point - maybe late NYC, or early PC, I DID see the "rust and rust" targets I mentioned!

The colors red and yellow were not in use on mainline switches but were used in the yard, white for straight moves and yellow for turnout moves. The same applied on both the New York Central and the New Haven.
In the case of mainline switches in non ABS territory, a strip of metal with two arms and round holes in them colored red indicated that the switch was lined for a siding or a spur of some sort accompanied by a red switch light or disc while a green switch light indicated switch lined for the main track. Some of these old style switfh targets lasted well into Conrail but I would bet they are pretty much gone today.
Noel Weaver

BR&P,

You may be right on the white straight and red reverse being used on a branch main line somewhere but I am unable to confirm that in reviewing NYCRR ETT's for both Lines West and East, including the B&A. It would not have been in conformance with the Book of Rules for 1956 unless an exception was published in the ETT and I was unable to locate any exceptions issued during the late 50's or early 60's covering any division, except on the 30th Street Branch as mentioned earlier.

I have not researched anything after Penn Central took over so I cannot comment. My interest is primarily NYCRR.

Noel,

The colors used by the NYC RR were covered by Rule 294 in the October 28, 1956 Book of Rules and there were no exceptions on the colors, ABS vs Non ABS Territory. Main Line Switch Targets - Fig. 211 and 212 Red, lined for Diverging Route. Fig. 213 and 214 Green, lined for the Main Track. Siding and Yard Switch Targets. Fig. 215 and 216 Yellow, lined for Diverging Route. Fig. 217 and 218 White, lined for Straight Track or Lead. Maybe the New Haven had a different arrangement. What were the New Haven Rules or Special Instructions that covered switch targets?

Jack

Darn all that Micro buffing and result is same as what came out of first 3 post.......
'

Jack, I sent out a couple emails, one reply said he seemed to remember red for reverse and nothing for normal. These would be hand thrown switches on non-signaled branch line main track. Not by the book, but then that was not unusual back then at times!

The monthly brunch is the 14th, if I think of it I'll bring it up then although a lot of the guys will still be in Florida (and may NEVER come back north the way we're going!)

Jack Shufelt wrote:BR&P,

You may be right on the white straight and red reverse being used on a branch main line somewhere but I am unable to confirm that in reviewing NYCRR ETT's for both Lines West and East, including the B&A. It would not have been in conformance with the Book of Rules for 1956 unless an exception was published in the ETT and I was unable to locate any exceptions issued during the late 50's or early 60's covering any division, except on the 30th Street Branch as mentioned earlier.

I have not researched anything after Penn Central took over so I cannot comment. My interest is primarily NYCRR.

Noel,

The colors used by the NYC RR were covered by Rule 294 in the October 28, 1956 Book of Rules and there were no exceptions on the colors, ABS vs Non ABS Territory. Main Line Switch Targets - Fig. 211 and 212 Red, lined for Diverging Route. Fig. 213 and 214 Green, lined for the Main Track. Siding and Yard Switch Targets. Fig. 215 and 216 Yellow, lined for Diverging Route. Fig. 217 and 218 White, lined for Straight Track or Lead. Maybe the New Haven had a different arrangement. What were the New Haven Rules or Special Instructions that covered switch targets?

Jack

My point was that I was not sure whether they used any switch targets at all in ABS territory, I know that post NYC many mainline switches especially ones equipped with electric locks hasd no targets at all, maybe they should have but a lot of them did not. In New York Central days I worked Woodlawn - Grand Central Terminal but in Penn Central, Conrail and Metro-North I worked a lot of former New York Central territory. Most of my information also came from the October, 1956 rulebook.
Noel Weaver

Noel,

Yes, the NYCRR did use switch targets in ABS territory. One I recall clearly is the siding to track 1 high switch just west of the Hudson station. I was working in Hudson in the late 50's and early 60's and that switch definitely had a red banner when reversed and green when normal. I cannot comment on post NYC RR without doing research.

I took a look at the New Haven Rule Book for 1956 and it is does not have a Rule 294 or anything similar that I could locate but I may have overlooked something. New Haven Rule 516 speaks to the issue of lights on switches as did Special Instruction No. 136 in ETT No. 15 of October 28, 1962 but there seems to be nothing related to banners or colors. I find it interesting that the NYCRR was clear on the use of banners and colors and seemingly the New Haven had nothing in the Book of Rules. This is good example of differences between railroads on rules and application.

BR&P

I would be most interested if you can document an exception on the use of banner colors. I am aware that individual divisions sometimes deviated from the rules but I just find it unlikely when related to banner colors. I can recall the high switch at the east and west end of the passing siding at Millerton on the Harlem Division because I threw it many times and it had a red banner when reversed and green when normal.

73's

Jack

Jack, I'll see what I can come up with. As I say it will be a while before our monthly get-together (14th this month) and since it's about a 40 minute drive for me, if the weather is crappy that day I may skip it.

I asked a friend who took pictures back then. He came up with one photo from 1964 but it was an inside switch, not on the main. That shows a high stand with a banner which would show red (altho it's a B&W pic) when lined reverse into the Team Track, and no target for when lined straight for the passing track. If only he had a shot of a main track switch!