Southcoast Rail

Frode wrote:The existing abandoned track is single-track south of Stoughton - you can still see it in the woods along Route 138. It's double-tracked at North Easton station, and the ROW south of North Easton station after the filled-in tunnel looks wide enough for double track, although there is only an abandoned single track there now. The abandoned single track ends at Route 123 by the Ace Hardware, and then the ROW south has no rails (I assume all the way through the swamp, although I've only seen it in person as far south as Route 106).

NYNH&H busted it gradually down to single, but it used to be (like so many secondaries and branches) full DT end-to-end back in the steam era. Tracing the progression through topo maps on Historic Aerials, it was continuous DT all points north from the split with the Whittendon Branch in Taunton on the 1921 topo map. Then the 1931 map shows it truncated to the north end of the swamp, a couple hundred feet south of 106 (approx. where the power line ROW intersects now). Then the '41 map shows it cut back to North Easton and just south of the historic train station, with the Easton Branch's (east-west between 123 in Easton and 106 just north of downtown Bridgewater and the Old Colony main) abandonment during the Depression forcing that cutback. Then the 1965 topo showing 2nd track removed from Stoughton except for the North Easton siding, presumably due to end of passenger service.


Southernmost freight customer was at 123. All track south of there to the current Dean St. industrial track got scrapped shortly after end of passenger service. '64 topo map still shows it complete from Easton to Taunton via the Whittendon Branch (with Whittendon Jct. to the Dean St. track cut), but I'm pretty sure this was already out-of-service pending full abandonment by that point.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/ ... /-1/RSS777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“We’re forging ahead,” Fox said. “There is nothing saying to us right now, ‘Put on your brakes and stop.’ We’ve got our funding in place and we’re advancing with design.
“Right now, we haven’t been given any other direction and we’re moving ahead”

Most people would consider a lack of direction a bug, not a feature. But those people are quitters, damnit!!!

Also at the meeting, task force chairwoman Sue Teal noted that the regional group, founded in 1999 to facilitate SouthCoast commuter projects, now has a new name and streamlined focus

Clearly...this...changes...everything.

public outreach coordinator Nancy Farrell touted the redesigned South Coast Rail website through MassDOT

Yes! That's the answer! A new goddamn website. Departing tomorrow morning from South Station. . .

State Sen. Mark Montigny, D-New Bedford, said generating revenue through development near new train stations and, perhaps, the sale of MBTA assets such as station names to private companies, would have a much greater chance of success than more taxes.

“At the state level, those that are saying we need a tax increase in order to fix the T and expand to places like New Bedford … first of all, they’re wrong, but even if they’re right, it’s not going to happen,” he said. “If you can’t convince the public to even allow an inflationary increase, why do you think you’re going to get them to pay for a mess that needs to get cleaned up?”

Magic pixie dust! The answer to all of life's questions!



I feel like I suffered a traumatic brain injury after reading that article.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:I feel like I suffered a traumatic brain injury after reading that article.

You're not the only one.

So they only have $250 million funded versus the total need of $2.5 billion (plus the $1 billion or so to expand South Station first). Just a minor detail I guess.

ohalloranchris wrote:So they only have $250 million funded versus the total need of $2.5 billion (plus the $1 billion or so to expand South Station first). Just a minor detail I guess.

And $50M was for the bridge work they were obgligated to do for the CSX line sale to lift the freight weight restrictions. Money that would've been spent regardless of whether there was a commuter rail project or not.


So...basically, $200M for the consultants to light on fire vs. the $2.5B they're seeking to light on fire.

I am happy to see the southern tracks (the inverted y network) upgraded for freight. I woul like it to turn into summer seasonal weekend service from New Haven to New Bedford (or NYC - NB in weekend slots) and let's test the "tourism" hypothesis on the cheap as a Downeaster/Cape Flyer hybrid aimed at NY/CTA traffic that wants to avoid the I95s

Arlington wrote:I am happy to see the southern tracks (the inverted y network) upgraded for freight. I woul like it to turn into summer seasonal weekend service from New Haven to New Bedford (or NYC - NB in weekend slots) and let's test the "tourism" hypothesis on the cheap as a Downeaster/Cape Flyer hybrid aimed at NY/CTA traffic that wants to avoid the I95s

Wait, New Yorkers vacation in New Bedford?

I suppose they could take the ferry or Cape Air to the islands. The ill-named
Whale's Tooth parking lot fills up pretty good during tourist season.

D

deathtopumpkins wrote:Wait, New Yorkers vacation in New Bedford?

Not so much, but Oak Bluffs, Vineyard Haven, & Cuttyhunk are just a ferry ride away.

Still, advocates wax poetic about all the tourism that looong commuter rail trip(from Boston) is supposedly going to unlock. I find that laughable, but consider myself a scientist and open to experiments--just not multi-billion-dollar ones, when I could be laying those $ on sure-things in roughly the same area of the state(unpinching the Old Colony / Middleboro line or adding track to the NEC)

Given the success of the Cape Flyer and truly awful traffic on I-95 (likely worsened by CT's pending widening) I'm willing to see how rail from New Haven or NYP might do at New Bedford. But part of what made the Cape Flyer turn a profit above-the-rails was its use of 100% pre-existing everything (rail, vehicles, crews, stations). There's likely an upcoming generation of Car-free vacationers in New Haven and Providence who'd be happy to take a train to a ferry on weekends from Memorial Day to Labor Day.

Mass owns most of the tracks from the NEC to FR & NB (CSX owns random bits/appurtenances). We should make ourselves a solid freight line with new bridges and be able to run weekend passenger service on them at decent speeds "in season" and (and, on weekends, direct to/from New York Penn, if need be)

GP40MC1118 wrote:I suppose they could take the ferry or Cape Air to the islands. The ill-named
Whale's Tooth parking lot fills up pretty good during tourist season.

D

Arlington wrote:

deathtopumpkins wrote:Wait, New Yorkers vacation in New Bedford?

Not so much, but Oak Bluffs, Vineyard Haven, & Cuttyhunk are just a ferry ride away.

Still, advocates wax poetic about all the tourism that looong commuter rail trip(from Boston) is supposedly going to unlock. I find that laughable, but consider myself a scientist and open to experiments--just not multi-billion-dollar ones, when I could be laying those $ on sure-things in roughly the same area of the state(unpinching the Old Colony / Middleboro line or adding track to the NEC)

Given the success of the Cape Flyer and truly awful traffic on I-95 (likely worsened by CT's pending widening) I'm willing to see how rail from New Haven or NYP might do at New Bedford. But part of what made the Cape Flyer turn a profit above-the-rails was its use of 100% pre-existing everything (rail, vehicles, crews, stations). There's likely an upcoming generation of Car-free vacationers in New Haven and Providence who'd be happy to take a train to a ferry on weekends from Memorial Day to Labor Day.

Mass owns most of the tracks from the NEC to FR & NB (CSX owns random bits/appurtenances). We should make ourselves a solid freight line with new bridges and be able to run weekend passenger service on them at decent speeds "in season" and (and, on weekends, direct to/from New York Penn, if need be)

I think you're going to get more traffic to/from Boston than NYC with a train to New Bedford. It takes about 3 hours on the Acela to get from NYP to Providence so a Regional to NB would likely be 45 mins. longer. And then you have the trek to Attleboro, Taunton, and finally NB. That's roughly a 5 1/2 hr. trip before getting to the ferry. And the route itself is anything but direct. It looks like a super long hook. Not to mention there will need to be time allocated for the engine switch unless the train runs with a dual mode (which is unlikely considering how much they're needed in the NYC area) or they simply couple the diesel on in front and shut down the electric (which has been done on Train 66).

If attracting NYC residents to the Vineyard and Nantucket is the end goal better alternatives would be:

1) NYP-New London train (Amtrak or MNR + SLE) + high speed ferry connection. Such a ferry service exists to/from Block Island so I don't see how a Vineyard ferry could be out of reach.

2) New York-Vineyard non-stop high speed ferry. Could take a bit longer than the train + ferry option, but it is a one seat ride.

3) Special LIRR service to Greenport (+bus shuttle?) + high speed ferry (either @ Greenport or Orient Point). Multiple transfers, yes, but via the crow flies this would be the shortest route if not the one below.

4) LIRR to Montauk + bus shuttle + high speed ferry. I believe there's already a HSF service to Block Island from Montauk so again a ferry to the Vineyard should be manageable.

Right now as it stands I think the best chance one has at a as-seamless-as-possible journey from NYC to the Vineyard is Option 1. Frequent rail service and existing docking + ticketing facilities, etc. for high speed ferry ops.

GP40MC1118 wrote:I suppose they could take the ferry or Cape Air to the islands. The ill-named
Whale's Tooth parking lot fills up pretty good during tourist season.

D

New Bedford Airport is getting its runway upgraded to take slightly larger planes. The Airport Grille restaurant there at the terminal (decent food, decent price) is pretty nice for plane-watching. Surprising amount of activity there between Cape Air, private planes, and express package/mail service to the Islands.

Unfortunately despite being right on the other side of Route 140 from the proposed Kings Highway CR station, the terminal is nestled right in the center a very roundabout drive away. And there's no local bus service, nor on even the busiest summer weekends are you ever going to get a steady enough flow of passengers choosing air travel to even support an airport shuttle bus from the stations. It's far too niche a transit share.

And as for direct train service to the Cape with a FR/NB catchment...you can have that with a shuttle bus to Tanton at the train station picking up a future Providence-flank Cape Flyer or reinstated Cape Codder. Routes 24 and 140 never back up very much south of that incredibly insufficient 24/140 partial interchange during the week or weekend. Cape weekends 24/495 interchange (stretching north as far as West Bridgewater)and 195 east of Mattapoisett/Marion are where all the backups are. A simple SRTA local bus running express from downtown FR and NB to the Taunton Flyer/Codder stop is doable in 15 minutes. Fast enough to make the bus + train really beat a car or direct Cape bus once the maint backlog on the Middleboro Secondary gets chipped away at like it has on the Cape Main. And fast enough that bus transfer timed to the Flyer/Codder Taunton stop is always going to beat a far less frequent and more expensive commuter rail trainsfer from FR/NB at Taunton Depot to catch the Cape Train. The weekend / off-peak / reverse-commute schedules on full-build CR are way too crippled from the cities to ever make that a viable transfer, so bus transfer is always and forevermore going to be the only way to plausibly serve that weekender demographic.

But you also don't have to wait. Providence Flyer or return of the 'Codder is all conceivable before THIS decade's end on the same sort of short money it took to get the Flyer up and running in the first place. Really only need a couple more seasons worth of incremental progress on the Cape Main serving all audiences before it is plausible to start doing a Year 1's worth of the same types of track upgrades on the Middleboro Sec...then a slow build where Years 1 & 2 are a little time-consuming but gradually become sustainable on their own convenience. You can have those Route 24 and 140 shuttles to Taunton right from the get-go (which can either be temp re-use of the old Codder downtown stop or staking an early claim to the Taunton Depot parcel and just installing a bare open-air wood high platform a la downtown Wareham).


The tourism angle really doesn't matter in relation to South Coast Rail until RIDOT joins forces with a Newport Secondary + Sakkonet River Bridge re-connection. In which case Newport becomes direct-accessible on a slow train from several originating points. It is in their 2014 State Rail Plan as a bona fide study target since they plan to do some Flyer-esque small releases of money to the dinner train to improve the on-island state-of-repair and allow for instituting some cheap in-season dinky with an RDC or two (really convenient since the line hugs the beach, there's a lot of great biking the whole way, and the northern neck of the island is narrow enough that it wouldn't be a bad walk or short bike across to downtown Portsmouth. So when they've got some genuinely usable track on Aquidneck Island the Tiverton gap isn't such a far-fetched investment. But...priorities...this comes behind all of their bread-and-butter intrastate commuter rail buildouts. And one of the SCR Task Force's many crimes is that they won't even acknowledge RIDOT's stakeholder status as a potential traffic-generator on the Fall River branch or the Cape trains on the Middleboro Sec. as stakeholders. If anything they've been in quixotically hostile direct competition mode with anything Cape-related for south-of-495 rail funding and actively tried to undermine Bourne commuter rail efforts. Beneficial transit interconnectivity just isn't their goal...graft is. So even these stakeholders that help their cause end up not being worth sharing with or letting into the cabal.

SCR on hold for the time being until the T is "fixed" (with fair use quote):

“Gov. Baker said the state will be moving forward with transportation projects only if they have federal funding in place. South Coast Rail doesn’t have federal funding.”

http://swansea.wickedlocal.com/article/ ... /150406281" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NH2060 wrote:SCR on hold for the time being until the T is "fixed"
http://swansea.wickedlocal.com/article/ ... /150406281" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The adults are running things now. Here's the most interesting part of the article:

Baker’s aides said Wednesday that money would be appropriated to continue planning and design work for South Coast Rail.

But with South Coast Rail off the table, at least for now, Fiola said the city should turn its focus to developing waterfront land along Route 79 that will be opened up by the reconstruction of Davol Street between the Braga Bridge and the Veterans Memorial Bridge.

So the spending will continue!

BandA wrote:

NH2060 wrote:SCR on hold for the time being until the T is "fixed"
http://swansea.wickedlocal.com/article/ ... /150406281" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The adults are running things now. Here's the most interesting part of the article:

Baker’s aides said Wednesday that money would be appropriated to continue planning and design work for South Coast Rail.

But with South Coast Rail off the table, at least for now, Fiola said the city should turn its focus to developing waterfront land along Route 79 that will be opened up by the reconstruction of Davol Street between the Braga Bridge and the Veterans Memorial Bridge.

So the spending will continue!

To be fair, that is a fricking lot of prime waterfront land that way underutilized eyesore of a highway frees up and turns over to use that will put tax revenues back into the city coffers. Something the MA 79 crabgrass median doesn't do today. Sure, they can screw up the redev 9 ways to Sunday, but at least that's a solidly bona fide spend-money-to-make-money effort. Which could potentially net a pretty nice waterfront district if they play their cards right.

Commuter rail service on a schedule so hopelessly broken as to be near-nonexistent sure as hell doesn't accomplish the payback part. If anything it would've snuffed out all oxygen in the room for tearing down 79 and left them with the worst of all worlds: billions in deadweight and little to no new land-use revenue to show for it.

there already is a high speed ferry from NYC to the Vineyard, runs weekends from Memorial day to Labor day, also the RI fast ferry (MV Fast Ferry) in Quantsit Point already markets NYC and the Vineyard connection through Amtrak. Van service from Kingston Station to the boat in a special coach van. so that connection may not be viable. might be better to try to resurrect the NYC/NH to cape cod... (cape Codder)