Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by Noel Weaver
 
The FL-9's from the day they were new were never a decent riding engine.
I can only imagine how bad they would ride if un-needed stuff were to be
removed to ease up on the dead weight and turn them into control cabs.
I would not want to be the engineer on these things if they ever were to
try to do it.
One problem, and it has been going on for years, is that both Metro-North
and CDOT have been very quick to put un-needed stuff in long term
storage in some area where it will be sure to be damaged or destroyed by
vandals or whatever.
If and when they ever do need to consider using this "un-needed stuff"
again, they are out of luck as vital parts, wire and other items have been
stolen and detioration has set in to the point of no return.
Some of us still remember the shortages of equipment a few years back
when all of the old New Haven 4400 class MU's were pre-matureally
stored. When there was a need for them again, most of them were too
far gone for decent use although a few of them ran for a while on the
New Canaan Branch and on the Hudson Line.
Nothing seems to get stored in good order and protected.
We are about to see the same thing with the 1100 class MU's which although not too pleasant to work on, still could be laid up for a while in
good order in the event of their need.
Suppose something happens to the M-7's and they all have to be taken
out of service for modifications at once, then what?
Noel Weaver
  by DutchRailnut
 
http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/lo ... 17117.stor\
y?coll=stam-news-local-headlines


Newest trains in commuter rail fleet are unveiled
By Mark Ginocchio
Staff Writer
October 7, 2004

NEW HAVEN - Despite growing up in Virginia, Gov. M. Jodi Rell says the
new rail cars coming to Connecticut this month are not meant to promote
her home state.

"I'm sorry they say Virginia on the front," she said. "But the fact is,
they're in Connecticut now."

At Union Station in New Haven yesterday, the state unveiled three of the
26 used rail cars purchased last month from Virginia Railway Express.
Those cars allow the state to meet its goal of adding 2,000 more seats
to its rail systems.

After taking a guided tour, Rell had glowing praise for the new $14
million acquisition.

"They look great," she said while passing by the rows of red and blue
seats. "These things are in tip-top shape."

The most noticeable difference is the "Virginia Railway Express" logo
tattooed along the top and sides of cars. Inside the train car, the
seats are brighter, the floors are cleaner and the overall conditions
appear newer than what Connecticut commuters are used to with
Metro-North Railroad.

But Metro-North will not benefit directly from these cars. After being
reconfigured to run on the state's rail systems, the cars will be placed
on Shore Line East Railroad, and 26 Shore Line cars will be switched to
Metro-North. The cars from Virginia are 12 years old; the Shore Line
cars are a decade old.

Because the Virginia rail cars are diesel hauled coaches, they are not
compatible with Metro-North.

The state Department of Transportation initially wanted to refurbish all
the Virginia cars and remove the logos, but when the governor found out
that process could last until February, she demanded the cars be ready
to go by the end of this month - Virginia logos and all. "We couldn't wait
for next year," Rell said. "I told them they had to move it up."

DOT Commissioner Stephen Korta said the cars were only going to be
delayed for the refurbishing, and they will be safe to use once they are
put into use.

About 15 cars should be ready by the end of the month and the other nine
will be here by the end of the year, said DOT spokesman Chris Cooper.
The cars are being stored at the New Haven rail yard for routine
maintenance.

Rail advocates and legislators praised the governor for aggressively
pursuing the Virginia cars, but wanted to remind commuters the new
acquisition is not going to solve all of Metro-North's problems.

"It's encouraging that the governor is fulfilling her promise . . . but
at the same time my level of joy is tempered," said state Sen. Andrew
McDonald, D-Stamford. "We're still going inherit old cars from the Shore
Line East and I hope what we inherit isn't as decrepit as what we
already got."

Last winter, almost one-third of the Metro-North fleet was knocked out
of commission because of the cold weather. Many of the cars are 30 years
old -- 10 years past their life expectancy.

McDonald said he hopes Rell makes the proposed $1 billion long-term plan
to buy new rail cars for Metro-North her top priority when the
Legislature meets in January.

"People will now have a place to sit because of these cars, but they
need to understand that this is nothing more than a stop-gap," McDonald
said.

Jim Cameron, vice chairman of the Connecticut Commuter Rail Council,
said commuters should expect a repeat of last winter if the weather gets
bad.

"I'm just warning commuters," Cameron said. Until the state gets new
cars, "it's no one's faults but the legislators. Not Metro-North. Not
DOT. But (Rell) can turn that around."

Copyright © 2004, Southern Connecticut Newspapers, Inc.

  by crij
 
I thought I had heard somewhere that the converted SPVs were too tall for the Grand Central tunnels. Any truth to this?

  by DutchRailnut
 
no the SPV's are same height as a M2.
MNCR did look into leasing those SPV cars a few years back but decided against it, cause braking is terible on them. and with GCT having short signal blocks. MNCR did once in a while run their own SPV's int GCT for equipment moves.

  by DutchRailnut
 

  by Nasadowsk
 
Braking's terrible on the SPVs? <b>Everything</b> is terrible about them. They ride like crap, the interior is lousy and dirty, they've got the bell mounted under the middle of the car so everyone has to listen to it, they've got manual doors.

I've been stuck on them during holiday trips. I thought the LIRR's old P-72/75 cars stunk until I was on one of those ex SPV junkers...
  by Silverliner II
 
The VRE Mafersa cab cars DO have cab signals and ATC. They needed them for use on the CSX RF&P Sub en route to Fredricksburg, and of course for the Amtrak territory in Washington Terminal.

They'll probably just need some minor modifications to meet Metro-North requirements west of New Haven.

It seems like all the unwanted VRE equipment ends up being purchased or leased or borrowed by Metro-North or ConnDOT. Anybody remember the VRE (ex-MBTA) Boise Budds Metro-North used for a while in the late 1990's? I rode a set from GCT to Harmon on a Poughkeepsie express.

Joe

  by DutchRailnut
 
Cab signal/atc is not enough, they need ACESS to run east of New Haven, and won't run on anything els but SLE because of manual doors.

  by Silverliner II
 
DutchRailnut wrote:Cab signal/atc is not enough, they need ACESS to run east of New Haven, and won't run on anything els but SLE because of manual doors.

The Mafersa cars had automatic doors when delivered.....and interestingly enough, SEPTA will be grandfathered in when ACSES hits the Trenton-Newark segment. There is nothing in the SEPTA budget indicating installation of ACSES cab signal equipment at this time.

  by DutchRailnut
 
were not talking septa here .
differnt rules different railroad

  by Silverliner II
 
DutchRailnut wrote:were not talking septa here .
differnt rules different railroad
I was talking about when Amtrak cuts ACSES in on the Corridor east of Trenton and south of Philly, they're not demanding that SEPTA install ACSES cab signal equipment at this time.

Amtrak doesn't even require ACSES for NJ Transit trains, but NJT's own SES system is similar and might be Amtrak-compatible; I don't know that for sure, and NJT only has SES in effect on the Pascack Valley Line. ACSES is in effect on a section of track in Maryland, and that did not stop them from operating NJT trains down there last Thanksgiving. NS runs a road freight from Metuchen to Morrisville on Amtrak in ACSES territory without ACSES-equipped cab siganls/ATC.

My point is that Amtrak does have provisions in the rules for operating trains that are cab signal/ATC equipped without ACSES....so that shouldn't stop SLE from operating the VRE cars without it on a short-term basis.

  by DutchRailnut
 
They do NOT have these provisions east of New Haven, all trains MUST have working ACSES system or they are not allowed past division post.

Rule 580-81 ACSES territory
ACSES rules 580 trough 591(see si 580-s1, page 322) are in effect on main tracks and controlled sidings between Mill River and Cove, as per si240-b1 page 105
The controlling engine of all trains operating in this territory must be equipped with operating ACSES apparatus, except when failure occures en route.
exception: between the hours of 1201 A.M. and 0501 A.M. CSXT trains with ACSES equipment cut out may operate in ACSES territory. crew members of CSXT trains that will not clear ACSES teritory by 0500 A.M. must cut in ACSES by 0500 A.M. and notify the Dispatcher.

  by Silverliner II
 
Thanks for that rulebook quote.....I would have thought they would have considered the provisions for up there too.


If they withdraw the provision for non-ACSES equipped trains on my end of the Corridor, it's going to be a nasty wake-up call for both CSX, NS, and SEPTA.....I can see the scramble now for funding to buy ACSES equipment.

I once ran a CSX GP40-2 on a work train that not only had the RF&P/Conrail/Amtrak cab signal equipment, but had a seperate ACSES cab signal display. The nose was so cluttered with ATC boxes and wiring and controls that the cooler was wedged in between the emergency brake valve and the steps into the nose....and the bathroom door would not open fully.

Now....I'll end my comments on the matter here so we can get back on track with the topic.....I got our train of thought derailed long enough.
  by DutchRailnut
 
Here are some pictures I took of the VRE's in New Haven yard, the cars are in great shape and interiors are like factory new.

cab interior
http://community.webshots.com/photo/130 ... 4417eqOpRc
and frontal view of cabcar
http://community.webshots.com/photo/130 ... 4469TKZWhf
and Coach V212
http://community.webshots.com/photo/130 ... 4528gfnheI
and VRE car Vs Bombardier profile
http://community.webshots.com/photo/130 ... 4581rRxhrI
cab car interior
http://community.webshots.com/photo/130 ... 4608JtToEi
the Marfersa trucks under the VRE's
http://community.webshots.com/photo/219 ... 4669nlrpFg

  by Mr Met
 
will the table be removed from the cars and also will these make there way into GCT
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