Skip the Bus from DC to NYC, Take the Train!

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Interesting follow up comments.

Not a lot of support for the train in those comments.

I think the main issue for many is cost. However, Amtrak seems to be filling trains, so I'm not sure the lowest price point folks are the demographic they want. For many though on leisure travel, the higher Amtrak price point does not deliver enough additional benefits beyond the bus to win out in many cases.

Ayup, cost is an issue, but Amtrak is definitely filling the trains.

Makes you wonder, if they had 2x the capacity for example what could they do with costs and ridership.

The one comment I saw about cost ($344RT) makes me wonder if the woman booked Acela.

Price is an issue. Of course, I doubt Bolt bus could offer $1 dollar fares if it had to pay to maintain I-95 in the same way Amtrak has to maintain the NEC.

Greg Moore wrote:Makes you wonder, if they had 2x the capacity for example what could they do with costs and ridership.

This is the delicate balance in the world of yield management of course. There's not likely a valid business case where twice the capacity = twice current revenue; more likely, it's a case of the law of diminishing returns. To fill some of those seats at 2x capacity, they might have to discount them severely, negating the case to buy the additional capacity. Yet, there might be more revenue that they're losing at peak hours due to lack of capacity (hence calls for longer Acelas), the question then becomes does that opportunity exceed the cost of idled/less full equipment off peak.

On the other hand, the cost-structure of a train tends towards high-fixed-cost, low-variable-cost: twice the capacity is not necessarily (indeed, assuming that the electrical system and existing motors in the locomotive can handle the extra coaches, replace "not necessarily" with "almost certainly not") twice current expense, in which case even severe discounting might not negate the case for the additional capacity.

My friends are all public transit fans, regardless of our origins, and I think this is very common among teens, twenty-somethings, and thirty-somethings like myself. As a generation, we strongly prefer riding transit to driving, and prefer train service strongly to buses. That said, we are price-conscious, and mid-distance buses are from half to a quarter of the cost of Amtrak.

In response to Amtrak, I say, "put your money where your mouth is." Get more cars (lease & lightly rebuild the retired NJT Comets), then get another 10 motors (AEM-7, HHP-8, more ACS-64s, whatever) so you can offer true low-cost service NYP-WAS. As long as the cars have Wi-Fi and outlets, luggage racks, and semi-comfortable seats (non-reclining is ok! Seriously!) with décor that isn't too obnoxious, I'd be satisfied. Even better would be adding a full café car with snacks and beverages (including wine & beer), as a new profit center with a captive audience of a few hundred bored twenty-somethings.

As for the commentary about having to severely discount fares, that's the whole point. As long as Amtrak offsets the allocated cost of operation of the extra cars (or an entire extra train), anything above that is gravy.

the flexible tickets make amtrak more desirable . I just think they would benefit will better off peak scheduling.

My only comment is to point you to the quote in my signature. It speaks for itself.

Threads like these in the past have pointed up issues like a low cost operation cannibalising Regional and the pinch points in the network which such an operator would have to avoid or which Amtrak would have to forgo profitable traffic to accommodate.

Low cost usually means a somewhat better experience with less frills. Well, instead of leaning on Amtrak to keep around equipment beyond useful life, how about leaning on the Powers That Be to have SEPTA and MARC meet south of PHL and to have NJT meet with SEPTA on the West Trenton Line. Maybe you have to take local transit to get to Hoboken rather than the convenience of Penn (when starting/finishing from New York side) but that's what you're giving up when not travelling on the higher fare.

i hate taking septa from trenton to philly.But Amtrak It way over priced for that stretch. It would be awesome if amtrak did regional service from nyc to philly.

For the times that Amtrak is already packing them out, I say leave it as is. Why charge less if you can sell out at the higher price? However, there are times where I'm sure they're not selling out and maintaining their high fares could possibly be hurting more than helping. I know last Wednesday morning, as my friend and I were driving back from Orlando, we were going to reach DC just in time for the 4AM train (Amtrak 110). She lives in Harrisburg so I was looking for ways to get back to NY from DC or Baltimore. Wanderu had Amtrak at ~$52 but the actual price was ~$88. I ended up watching that train leave the station while miserably sitting at Union Station for another hour to catch a 5AM Megabus for $23. I would've gladly paid the $52 considering how badly I wanted to get home already, but $88 was more than I had paid in my share of gas from Orlando to DC. Now, I don't know how full this train was or wasn't, but I can't imagine it was too crowded. Also, I'm not sure how many more people they would've gotten on board if they kept the fare at $52 instead of $88, nor am I sure it would've been enough people to cover the loss of $36 per person that they did get at the $88 fare. All I know is that the price kept me off the train, despite how exhausted and desperate to get home I was (and the fact that I have a Guest Rewards account that I'd love to accrue more points on).

dowlingm wrote:Threads like these in the past have pointed up issues like a low cost operation cannibalising Regional and the pinch points in the network which such an operator would have to avoid or which Amtrak would have to forgo profitable traffic to accommodate.

Low cost usually means a somewhat better experience with less frills. Well, instead of leaning on Amtrak to keep around equipment beyond useful life, how about leaning on the Powers That Be to have SEPTA and MARC meet south of PHL and to have NJT meet with SEPTA on the West Trenton Line. Maybe you have to take local transit to get to Hoboken rather than the convenience of Penn (when starting/finishing from New York side) but that's what you're giving up when not travelling on the higher fare.

Trenitalia doesn't make you transfer three times to save a few bycks. The more expensive trains are faster, make fewer stops, and have reserved seats. The cheap trains are slower, make more stops, and don't have reserved seating. That's how amtrak should run the nec. You'd have to be a glutton for punishment to take three commuter trains when there's a bus

For now, the idea of any real increase in the number of NYP-WAS trains is simply as I understand it, a non-starter. Can't get more slots through the current tunnels. (might during midday, but that still limits you.)

That said, I for one am not advocating for yet another teir of service.

But I suspect if Amtrak could start running say 10 car regionals on existing trains, they'd probably fill many of them on a regular basis at the current price point and probably fill others at a lower price per seat, but similar cost per seat.