Single-level cars for VIA's Ontario-Quebec Corridor...

Everyone: At the Amtrak forum there is a topic titled "Single Level Corridor Next-Generation Cars" and after reading about VIA's troubles with the Renaissance equipment and the age of the LRC cars (30 years old or thereabouts this year) it got me to thinking: How about a joint order between Amtrak and VIA for next generation single level railcars for the Ontario-Quebec Corridor service? Already mentioned is that VIA can save money on any joint car order and compatibility between Amtrak and VIA can benefit both companies...can VIA look into this interesting possibility?

Thoughts from MACTRAXX

Unlikely, VIA would have to buy new locomotives because their HEP system is different than Amtrak. Also the present government has no interest in spending money on things like this and VIA can't take out loans. The LRC cars are being rebuilt, they are just as old as Amfleet II. When you consider that VIA bought the Ren sets for one quarter what they should have cost, they where a good buy.

bitf wrote:Unlikely, VIA would have to buy new locomotives because their HEP system is different than Amtrak.

The primary difference between Amtrak and VIA HEP is that the left and right buses are are not connected (series) to allow HEP to be supplied from two locomotives/HEP generators. This is a minor change and would not preclude a joint order.

bitf wrote:Also the present government has no interest in spending money on things like this and VIA can't take out loans.

Now THAT is something that would preclude ordering new rollingstock.

bitf wrote:Unlikely, VIA would have to buy new locomotives because their HEP system is different than Amtrak. Also the present government has no interest in spending money on things like this and VIA can't take out loans. The LRC cars are being rebuilt, they are just as old as Amfleet II. When you consider that VIA bought the Ren sets for one quarter what they should have cost, they where a good buy.

Bitf: I wanted to reply to this sooner...I believe that with a joint car order Amtrak and VIA can have them built with electrical systems compatible with both voltages they use to add to their flexibility not requiring special locomotives...
I still feel that if Amtrak goes to order single-level NEC cars to replace the Amfleet VIA should at least look into this opportunity for a joint or maybe an "add-on" order with cars built for VIA specs...

The trouble with the Renaissance cars is that they were a bargain at first but after noting what VIA has had to spend on them perhaps they weren't the bargain that VIA was hoping for but after spending major money to modify them VIA now has a huge investment in them and they are stuck with them in a way...that is why I mentioned using them in dedicated service E of Montreal...

Thoughts from MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:I believe that with a joint car order Amtrak and VIA can have them built with electrical systems compatible with both voltages they use to add to their flexibility not requiring special locomotives...

The voltage is the same for Amtrak and VIA: 480 volt, 3 phase AC. The difference is Amtrak equipment cross feeds the left and right busses, VIA keeps them separate. By keeping them separate VIA can run the left bus off of one locomotive and the right bus off of a second locomotive. This is done due to higher amperage demands for heating in winter. None of this is an obstacle if building two fleets from a common vehicle platform.

There are other subtle differences. American equipment has to have FRA compliant shatter resistant glazing. Transport Canada glazing requirements are not as strict. FRA and TC handicap accessibility specifications have been developed independently from one another so the vehicle platform would have to be designed to accommodate both before that first piece of steel is cut. Until both sides sign on the dotted line agreeing to purchase new cars no one is going to spend the time and resources designing a cross-border compliant vehicle platform.

Yes, a joint order would be in the best interests for both parties deepening the parts base and simplifying the manufacturing process. But this is a political decision and politics are not about simplicity but rather political expediency. Things did not used to be this complicated.

IN all fairness the renaissance cars were a steal of a deal compared to there actual retail cost what was estimated to be worth $3-4 million a pieces via snagged up for a cool $1 million a piece ( actually it was more like $950k if I remember correctly). In total for having the cars shipped to Canada and then modified for VIA service I believe VIA spent around $300-400K per car. So they still came in well under the retail cost. The problem, they skimped on the upgrade, If they would have dropped and additional $250K into the cars Im sure all there winter problems would have been solved. It not to late to re-modify however the pocketbook just cant handle it at the time. Im sure VIA Rail and there passengers wish they could acquire some new rolling stock, with all the modern amenities, however its just not going to happen @ the price tag that new rolling stock will cost. Lets see re-upgrade 100 cars in the Renaissance fleet @ $400-500K a piece which would solve Most of the major current issues = $40-50 million. Totally rebuild the LRC fleet from top to bottom and remove tilting ( currently underway) @ $1 million a piece= $98 million, or purchase new rolling stock with a add on order to Amtrak estimated @ $2.5-3 million a piece (100 cars @ $250-300 Million) which also means having to retool all your shops for another new car maintenance, re-educating all workers for new car maintenance, purchasing new tools for maintenance and repairs of the new cars, $$S etc.... Its a nice suggestion but once/if the VIA brass and the Ministry were to acquire the figures Im sure its DOA. Also if VIA was to order New cars Bombardier would have a fit If they didn't order from them or consider them first. Theres a lot of tightening the belt going on across the border, I'd bet on Black that new train cars orders is the last thing there thinking of.

Last I checked, FRA passenger car standards do infact "meet and exceed" the standards set by Transport Canada...