SEPTA Vulnerabilities: Two recent incidents

As you may have known, there were two incidents that highlighted vulnerabilities in rail systems. The first on concerned the fire in NYC that crippled the A and C lines and created traffic havoc on subway lines in Brooklyn. The second one was the horrible Metrolink accident in LA. My question is this; Is SEPTA vulnerable to similar accidents? Does having the three main subways[BSS, MFSE, SS] operating independent of each other a help or an hindrance? How vulnerable are the regional rails?

SEPTA regional rail lines are for the most part grade seperated and on the lines with many grade crossings the speeds are fairly slow (40-50 mph). Moreover SEPTA does not share the track with big freight trains except for the R3 West Trenton so the risk of this sort of accident is much reduced.

SEPTA did recently close all its towers, but interlockings are all still controled by on site relay boxes so if one of those gets taken out there will be a service disruption.

Don't forget about Fox chase to I believe Cheltanham, although I know the freight trains run on their own tracks just before Chel.

Don't forget about Fox chase to I believe Cheltanham, although I know the freight trains run on their own tracks just before Chel.

Norristown too, for a short stretch.

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Don't forget about Fox chase to I believe Cheltanham, although I know the freight trains run on their own tracks just before Chel.

There doesn't appear to be evidence of recent freight activity at Fox Chase.

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/SEPT ... 4_12_29_31

In the future, I plan to railfan at Norristown; maybe take the 100 to NTC and then Septa R6 back. I know there are a lot of freights but only for a short time as the Septa is. No freights above Cheltenham.. The Fox Chase ends right at Fox Chase with the bumper posts.

Jersey_Mike wrote:SEPTA regional rail lines are for the most part grade seperated and on the lines with many grade crossings the speeds are fairly slow (40-50 mph). Moreover SEPTA does not share the track with big freight trains except for the R3 West Trenton so the risk of this sort of accident is much reduced.

The places where you'd be most likely to see an accident similar to the Metrolink incident would be Langhorne and Woodbourne, where SEPTA shares trackage with CSX, and both stations have at-grade crossings. Even so, the SEPTA trains approach Langhorne slowly enough that they wouldn't have trouble stopping before they'd hit a car parked across the tracks (usually you'll see five or six people run across the crossing from the south parking lot while the gates are down and the train is in sight). The freight trains, on the other hand...

chuchubob wrote:There doesn't appear to be evidence of recent freight activity at Fox Chase.

The freight activity is on the CSX trackage south of Fox Chase, between Cheltenham Jct and NX. Fox Chase is the end of the line if or until the line to Newtown is restored from that point.

The other thing with the metro link accident was that it was a push pull loco pushing the train from behind. I don't know if procedure there is to have a brakeman up front to watch out for obstructions. Septa running mostly MUs has its adavantages of having an engineer up front.

tinmad dog wrote:The other thing with the metro link accident was that it was a push pull loco pushing the train from behind. I don't know if procedure there is to have a brakeman up front to watch out for obstructions. Septa running mostly MUs has its adavantages of having an engineer up front.

There is always an engineer at the head end of the train, whether it be an MU, cab car or locomotive. I'm sure that the engineer involved in the Metrolink tragedy had that train in emergency at the first second he realized he was going to hit the SUV. Unfortunately, he is not with us today to confirm that fact.

As glenn said the engineer of the Metrolink train was indeed up front. A Push-pull operation with the cab-car up front and the engine in back does not mean that the engineer is neccesarily in the engine located at the rear of the train. You could think of a Metrolink cab car as a double-decked MU sans motors.

There is the possibility that a SEPTA MU train would fair better in a grade crossing accident of the type experienced in LA than the Metrolink train did. Our MUs distribute power and weight more evenly along the length of the train, so that upon impact with the obstruction on the rail it's at least likely that despite derailing the MU leading the train would not have headed off the trackbed and struck the freight, nor would it have had such a great chance of jack-knifing upon striking the freight locomotive. The weight of the locomotive concentrated in the rear of the train combined with the poor braking performance of the Metrolink train is likely what resulted in the vast majority of problems created by the accident.

That said, the possibility also exists that for a SEPTA MU train the results of the accident would have been worse than the Metrolink train. The pilots of the SEPTA MUs seem to be somewhat less substantial than the pilot on a given Metrolink commuter car. It might be easier for objects to get under the vehicle upon impact and thus derail it.

If I may say so, the Metrolink tragedy was just a horrible fluke. There are so many factors that played into that accident....

What if the train that struck the SUV had been just 2 minutes later? The other train could have given a warning.

What if the other train had been just two minutes later? The first train would have hit the SUV and merely derailed without hitting the other train, and possibly missing that UP locomotive too....

So many what-if's......talk about a "perfect storm"!

The driver of the SUV should be put to death---no question.

The other nice thing about EMUs is they've got all that underfloor electric gear. Pushed the COG down low. When an NJT Arrow III lost a wheel the other year - the cars tilted but didn't flip or significantly leave the ROW. LIRR M-1s have gone through washouts without significantly being disrupted, just derailed. (though at low speed).

It's like a car Vs an SUV. SUVs flip if you look at them funny. A Corvette takes talent to flip.