SEPTA train bathrooms

I know this has been brought up numerous times but WHY are there NONE to be had? Lots of lines are long enough to warrant a bathroom! Esp the R-7 and R-3. How could commuters get them to start ordering cars with facilities??? I am sure numerous passengers have been "pissed off" (no pun intended) about having to wait till their stop esp when the ride is long.

Bobby S wrote:I know this has been brought up numerous times but WHY are there NONE to be had?

Short answer? Pat Deon.

Bobby S wrote:I know this has been brought up numerous times but WHY are there NONE to be had? Lots of lines are long enough to warrant a bathroom! Esp the R-7 and R-3. How could commuters get them to start ordering cars with facilities??? I am sure numerous passengers have been "pissed off" (no pun intended) about having to wait till their stop esp when the ride is long.

$$$

$= Cost of actual bathroom unit
$= Cost of maintaining unit (cleaning, fixing, etc)
$= Cost of maintaining proper facilities to.. empty the facility

The Silverliner VI fleet will begin the design phase in the next year or two.

The Silverliner V's were designed with no public input.

Let's make this time different.

One reason is that it's really awkward feeling for most people to walk into a vehicle toilet when other people are looking at you. For the Silverliners you'll always have a few dozen people looking at you as you walk into and out of the lavatory... really weird feeling. Notice how on busses and the Bombardier cars the restrooms are in the back away from customers. Airplanes have lavatories in the front out of necessity.

None of the lines, except for maybe the R5 local on both ends, are really THAT long to warrant a bathroom. Other lines generally hang around an hour in rush hour local traffic.

The REAL issue is that most of the stations either don't have facilities or the facilities are locked and closed for most of the time the system is open. The cost of implementing waste management facilities for these lines when the restrooms would barely be used may be cost prohibitive.

However, it would be a GREAT convenience to have, especially for those sudden "I need to go now" instances. The question is - do the benefits justify the cost?

septadude wrote:One reason is that it's really awkward feeling for most people to walk into a vehicle toilet when other people are looking at you. For the Silverliners you'll always have a few dozen people looking at you as you walk into and out of the lavatory... really weird feeling. Notice how on busses and the Bombardier cars the restrooms are in the back away from customers. Airplanes have lavatories in the front out of necessity.

Everybody Poops

It doesn't matter how long or short the trip is, somebody will use them. Not everybody is embarrassed.

It's not Septa's responsibility to offer restroom facilities. They also don't feed me, or should I say, provide me with the option to buy something to eat/drink en route. Same with something to read. Or pillow and blankets if I want to take a nap.

But without any facilities to service the cars, it's not like Septa can just add them to existing or new cars easily. So there would be a support cost in addition to the cost of installing them in the cars. And they'd have to be ADA-compliant, which would remove ~15 seats per car. Since Septa has many single-units, do they put them in each car, each pair, or one per trainset? The way Septa shuffles EMU's around, can they build them with restrooms, too?

There are only 2 scenarios where I'd really appreciate a bathroom.

1) - its 4:55, going to miss the 5:02 out of suburban station to home. BUT the wife calls.
Gotta get home NOW, she has appointment. Gotta watch the kids.
GOTTA RUN, no time for bathroom, pass by men's room at work, pass by bathroom at comcast building,
pass by suburban station bathroom, run down the stairs to the platform and race onto the train
as the conductor was just following in the last person. Whew, just made it.
And the train starts up just after you get on.

Then your body reminds you. You just drank 8 oz. cup of water 5 minutes before your sudden, unexpected
departure. Its going to be a LONG 50 ride home.

2) Its 7:30 in the morning. You didn't sleep well the night before. Perhaps you can catch a few 'Z's on
the way to work. The train starts moving and you get past a few stations. Ahh, they turned down the
lights. Easier to sleep. Nice of them. And the train is going . . . slower . . . and slower . . . and
stop (in between stations)!!! And wait, and wait. Then the announcement. 'Ladies and Gentlemen, SEPTA appologizes for the delay
and any inconvenience, but a power line has come down . . .' And then, 'it' hits you. That cup of cofee.
The 16 OZ-er you got at WAWA. . . You know the rest of the 2 hour long story.

Its rare though. I don't think its worth the cost

Let's not forget some (all?) Silverliner IIs had bathrooms and SEPTA removed them to become crew closets.

Commuter rail cheapening has been advocated in this region since the city's seminal public transportation document, Plan and Program 1955. That report described the lines as "transit"; and it disowned the lines beyond Paoli, Media, and Lansdale as marginal or properly part of "main line" routes to other cities.

Those who believed in cutting corners that in other areas of the country were seen as essential eventually got their way. In the 1970s, a concession was offered to keep lavatories in the stations that were open on weekday mornings.

All of the other commuter rail systems (except the new one in Nashville) apparently have at least one lavatory on each train.

septadude wrote:One reason is that it's really awkward feeling for most people to walk into a vehicle toilet when other people are looking at you.

Somehow I've never had that problem when riding Amtrak or NJT. If people really have nothing better to do than watch others deal with one of life's necessities, they've got issues you don't want to be involved with.

I think the other responses have addressed the real reason - cost vs. benefit.

I think that bathrooms are a must on any railroad. We have them on MARC trains.

Let me tell you that when you gotta do, it doesnt matter if the whole train is looking at you.

The last thing I want to do is get off the train, run around to find a bathroom, then wait for the next train.

Public bathrooms are a huge cost to septa. Look at the MFL line, they have one at each end of the line. The 69th street bathrooms had to be equipped with prison fixtures as they kept being abused so badly. The frankford bathrooms are always being vandalized and messed up. They've found more than one dead junkie there too.

The ones at Market east are pretty bad too.

If you look at all the Broad Street line stations, there still are Men's and Women's rooms there that once were public. At the plaza at 15th street (near Rita's water ice) there once were public bathrooms. Same for 2nd street on the MFL and others. When people were less prone to stupidity, they were available to the public. Many years ago, Septa's predecessors decided enough was enough and locked the public out. It's a shame, but that is the way things are.

As I understand it the length of the rail line can bring about a FRA mandate to have lavatories on the train. Septa's regional lines are just shy of those numbers.

cpontani wrote:It's not Septa's responsibility to offer restroom facilities. They also don't feed me, or should I say, provide me with the option to buy something to eat/drink en route. Same with something to read. Or pillow and blankets if I want to take a nap.

Perhaps, but one can control bodily functions related to eating and sleeping. OTOH when ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

Bobby S wrote:I know this has been brought up numerous times but WHY are there NONE to be had?

Short answer? Pat Deon.

"... riders only deserve stainless steel benches that can be hosed off at the end of the day" - P.D.

I got quite a reaction at the Funding and (non)Reform Committee hearings when I juxtaposed that comment with the lack of facilities.