Septa Silverliner IV's

What is the difference between Nj Transit's Ex Arrow II's and Spta's siverliners? THere apears to be no difference between the two. Also why did Septa take the center doors out of the cars? Wouldnt it make it easier for passengers to exit the trains quicker?

Also does anyone have a picture of the 1 ex Arrow 2 on septa property

Njt4300 wrote:What is the difference between Nj Transit's Ex Arrow II's and Spta's siverliners? THere apears to be no difference between the two. Also why did Septa take the center doors out of the cars? Wouldnt it make it easier for passengers to exit the trains quicker?

Center doors were never installed on the SEPTA cars, though they were designed with that plug you see so they could be installed later if SEPTA thought it appropriate. At this point, the cars are so far into their economic life that it is unlikely those doors will ever be installed. The return on investment would be too small.

Not really feasible for SEPTA right now since it does not have many high level platforms, when compared to NJT. They've added alot more and more are in the works, so hopefully the next round of cars will have this feature.

Speaking of center doors, since the bulk of our fleet does not have them, why are conductors so hesitant to open ALL doors at center city stations to speed loading and unloading of passengers. Its always a mad rush of people trying to get on and off through two little doors. It would be nice if crews could direct people to leave at the end of the cars and board in the center, or something like that, or just OPEN THE DOOR! Doors on SLIV's are automatic, so I don't understand why its not done.

There's an engineering document available that has some stats on passenger boarding.

Level boarding takes about 2 seconds per passenger per door stream. With steps, it's about 4 seconds. The total time for boarding will be set by the car which takes the longest to board. On a SEPTA train, the first car will only have one door available if the engineer is blocking the other door. That works out to 4 minutes to load or unload 120 passengers through the one door.

With steps, it takes twice as long. So a full train has spent 8-10 minutes of its trip loading passengers at outlying low-level stations, and then 4-5 minutes at the Center City stations unloading them. This, along with the 15-20 mph speed restrictions, is why it takes 10 minutes to go from 30th Street Station to Market East.

The new Silverliner V will have three doors on each side for high level, with two convertible to low level, so it should make things faster.

Would it be possible to mix Silverliner IV's with 'bomber coaches?

jfrey40535 wrote:Not really feasible for SEPTA right now since it does not have many high level platforms, when compared to NJT.

Well there'd be some benefit from high-level doors just from the Center City stations, since the station dwell (some of which now is schedule padding) is the limiting factor on capacity in the tunnel and also ability to get following trains back on schedule.

They've added a lot more and more are in the works, so hopefully the next round of cars will have this feature.

They will.

Speaking of center doors, since the bulk of our fleet does not have them, why are conductors so hesitant to open ALL doors at center city stations to speed loading and unloading of passengers. Its always a mad rush of people trying to get on and off through two little doors. It would be nice if crews could direct people to leave at the end of the cars and board in the center, or something like that, or just OPEN THE DOOR! Doors on SLIV's are automatic, so I don't understand why its not done.

Management doesn't insist on it, just like they don't insist on a lot of other things that would improve passenger service.

back to the OP. The main difference between the late Arrow II's and the Silverliner IV is that the Silverliner IV has dyanmic brakes. That is why the SL IV's have a large "bump" on the roof that hides the equipment.

The main difference is that the Septa cars are still running. The Arrow II's are in the beer can the guy next to you sucked down on the commute home.

On a serious note, they do have the larger roof "hump". I do not remember fully as I have not been on a Septa Train in over 10 years, I believe the seats are fixed andt he Arrow II's were flippable.

I heard a rumor that the doors are actually in the jams on the IV's, they are just held back by the plug. Is there any truth to this???

I guess one could look over a conductor's shoulder as he/she opened the access panel directly behind the partition wall and see if they could see a door there??? Does anyone know????

Njt4300 wrote:Also does anyone have a picture of the 1 ex Arrow 2 on septa property

Some excellent pix of the ex-NJT Arrow in service on the Septa wire train can be seen here: http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW060205.html

They look very similar to the Silverliner Iv's

again- no hump on top and center doors

also, on a side note, the RL1s are the most pathetic diesels i've ever seen with any passenger railroad in america.

SEPTA has budgeted $750 million for the replacement of the Silverliner IV sometime in 2010-2017. I'm aware that this is the part of the capital budget where they put projects like the Newtown branch service restoration, but it's in there.

Project List

Lucius Kwok wrote:SEPTA has budgeted $750 million for the replacement of the Silverliner IV sometime in 2010-2017. I'm aware that this is the part of the capital budget where they put projects like the Newtown branch service restoration, but it's in there.

Project List

The Silverliner V's are meant to replace the Silverliner II's and Silverliner III's. They are currently reviewing the rebids (first go around was litigated into oblivion by the losers) and they might announce the decision in the next few months. If all goes well (which never happens) the first cars should be rolling by 2010.

oaksmodelrr wrote:

Lucius Kwok wrote:SEPTA has budgeted $750 million for the replacement of the Silverliner IV sometime in 2010-2017. I'm aware that this is the part of the capital budget where they put projects like the Newtown branch service restoration, but it's in there.

Project List

The Silverliner V's are meant to replace the Silverliner II's and Silverliner III's. They are currently reviewing the rebids (first go around was litigated into oblivion by the losers) and they might announce the decision in the next few months. If all goes well (which never happens) the first cars should be rolling by 2010.

2010, i doubt it. the original ads said "fall 06"

benltrain wrote:

oaksmodelrr wrote:If all goes well (which never happens) the first cars should be rolling by 2010.

2010, i doubt it. the original ads said "fall 06"

2010 is about right. Delivery of the pilot cars is called for 30 months from Notice to Proceed, and delivery of the first production cars would be 7-8 months later. Add time for SEPTA to negotiate a final contract with the bidder that they chose based on the RFP, and that's about 3 1/2 years. So if all goes well, production deliveries would start in late 2009.