I know that on the NYC Subways it is currently LEGAL (despite the fact that you may be harassed by MTA Police if you do) to take photos as long as you don't use a flash or a tripod and are not otherwise interfering with passenger flow. As noted in www.nycsubway.org, the rules are found in the New York State Compilation Codes, Rules and Regulations section 1050.9(c).
Does anyone know if there is a similar rule for the LIRR, or if this rule is applicable to the LIRR also?
Railroad Forums
Security out of hand.
- Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Moderator: Liquidcamphor
by SK2MY
It may seem as though the LIRR is blowing picture taking out of proportion, but consider what happened in Spain. The LIRR is "trying" to secure a very open area, which is not easy to do. If anything like the terrorist attack that happened in Spain, heaven forbid, should happen here, the first question would be about the integrity of the security system that we have on the property. Unfortunately, this is the society that we live in today. Things were very different years ago.
by SeldenJrFireman
This is my 2 cents:
I have stood on the Platform at KO with a video camera in hand, and rolling film. All of this in full view of a few MTA police officers that are standing no more than 30 feet away from me. To this date (knock on wood) I have never had any police officer approach me and ask me what I am up to.
The same with taking photos/video out at MP56. Before I started to take pictures, I made my presence known to the engineer by standing out there for a few weeks watching the train come by, and giving a wave to the engineer. After a while he became comfortable with me being there taking pictures. Along with the people that live on the other side of the tracks from my photo spot. They stay on their side of the tracks and I'll stay on my side.
In my opinion, people on this board that keep talking about cops coming up to you are doing something or acting in a way that requires their attention. They probably can get you for loitering on private property if they really want to.
Mike
I have stood on the Platform at KO with a video camera in hand, and rolling film. All of this in full view of a few MTA police officers that are standing no more than 30 feet away from me. To this date (knock on wood) I have never had any police officer approach me and ask me what I am up to.
The same with taking photos/video out at MP56. Before I started to take pictures, I made my presence known to the engineer by standing out there for a few weeks watching the train come by, and giving a wave to the engineer. After a while he became comfortable with me being there taking pictures. Along with the people that live on the other side of the tracks from my photo spot. They stay on their side of the tracks and I'll stay on my side.
In my opinion, people on this board that keep talking about cops coming up to you are doing something or acting in a way that requires their attention. They probably can get you for loitering on private property if they really want to.
Mike
by LIengineerBob
Also be aware that in the day and age of "instant communications" (ie.cell phones, text messaging, etc), many times it's NOT any railroad employee reporting a person with a camera, it some paranoid passenger (sorry...customer) or passer-by who happens to see you there with the camera and calls the PD. These people have the movement bureau and the MTA-PD on speed dial. I have witnessed it myself on several occassions. A few weeks back on my train in from Babylon, a woman called the PD directly on two 12 year olds taking a few pictures out the side window of the train, right there in the first car, a few seats from my cab. The PD was there in Jamaica to meet the train with a report of two suspisious people taking photos from the train. Neither I nor my conductor had any idea what they were talking about. Once the lady pointed out the two kids, I could not believe what I was seeing and hearing.
I myself have been approached by the MTA-PD for taking photos (and I am an employee for quite some time now) and guess who called the PD in....wasn't any railroad personel, it was a woman DRIVING BY IN HER CAR and reported a "suspisious" person taking photos from the platform.....this all the while i was wearing a SAFTEY VEST and clearly had my RR ID dangling from my neck.
Many people are still paranoid of this whole 9/11 B***S***, and will probably never get over it.
If asked to move on, do so, it's not worth getting locked up for some photos, unless you REALLY want to prove a point and have a few extra days to spare in jail.
Don't worry guys, I'll never report you, I'll just give you a toot of the horn and a wave....and might ask you for a copy of the picture!!
[/u][/i]
I myself have been approached by the MTA-PD for taking photos (and I am an employee for quite some time now) and guess who called the PD in....wasn't any railroad personel, it was a woman DRIVING BY IN HER CAR and reported a "suspisious" person taking photos from the platform.....this all the while i was wearing a SAFTEY VEST and clearly had my RR ID dangling from my neck.
Many people are still paranoid of this whole 9/11 B***S***, and will probably never get over it.
If asked to move on, do so, it's not worth getting locked up for some photos, unless you REALLY want to prove a point and have a few extra days to spare in jail.
Don't worry guys, I'll never report you, I'll just give you a toot of the horn and a wave....and might ask you for a copy of the picture!!
[/u][/i]
by R142A
Lirr168 wrote:robertwa,Number 1 is NOT true. Section 1050.9(c) only applies to NYCTA. LIRR has no photo rule, and while photography is LEGAL on both systems, the rules are NOT applied universally.
1) the rules can be universally applied to MTA agencies, so yes, these rules would apply to the LIRR.
2) You are allowed to use a flash, what is prohibited is additonal background lighting such as what a professional photographer might use.
by Long Island 7285
What irritates me most is the fact I got called in for NOT taking pictures, and having the tripod and camera LAYING on the floor at almost 3 feet away from my hand. If any thing I would have looked more like a regular customer waiting for my train or waiting for a passenger to pick up. What I was there for was irrelevant. And as long as I was not TAKING the pictures and the CAMERA was NOT in my hand no one cop can have authority to approach me, and even take my ID. All he should have done and had the right to do was stand within 10 feet of me and not say a word until I made an attempt to use the camera. What I’m aggravated about is that they went and did this entire BS for no reason just over some Lame customers call or an engineers report to 204.
I wearing my LIRR jacket and being friendly to the crews should not be a reason to be ratted on. And on top of that maybe I should put the MTAPD on speed dial and take footage of people making illegal trespassing trough lowered gates. Get pictures print them out then hang them on every station and PD, hey it’s not a bad idea to get the LIRR more money by summonsing these people who are breaking a federal law,
The point is that I was not taking a photo of a single thing, and they still humiliated me because some individual that is stuck up on 9-11 has his or her tail between there lags.
Were going on 4 years this September, it’s about we move on and learn that photography is not a crime. Taking photos of something or of DETAIL are 2 total different types of pictures. And before any names and prosecutions can even take place they have to PROOVE that one has pictures of structures that can be used in a harmful way.
Above all, terrorists only need to be on a machine like your using to read this post and any picture they want or need is here in brilliant detail. So taking more pictures is not going benefit or harm the LIRR or the American people. Our government is by not amending the constitution allowing for their deportation is the only thing that can be done. Its time lady liberty folds her open arms.
Basically one thing leads to another from the federal government level.
I wearing my LIRR jacket and being friendly to the crews should not be a reason to be ratted on. And on top of that maybe I should put the MTAPD on speed dial and take footage of people making illegal trespassing trough lowered gates. Get pictures print them out then hang them on every station and PD, hey it’s not a bad idea to get the LIRR more money by summonsing these people who are breaking a federal law,
The point is that I was not taking a photo of a single thing, and they still humiliated me because some individual that is stuck up on 9-11 has his or her tail between there lags.
Were going on 4 years this September, it’s about we move on and learn that photography is not a crime. Taking photos of something or of DETAIL are 2 total different types of pictures. And before any names and prosecutions can even take place they have to PROOVE that one has pictures of structures that can be used in a harmful way.
Above all, terrorists only need to be on a machine like your using to read this post and any picture they want or need is here in brilliant detail. So taking more pictures is not going benefit or harm the LIRR or the American people. Our government is by not amending the constitution allowing for their deportation is the only thing that can be done. Its time lady liberty folds her open arms.
Basically one thing leads to another from the federal government level.
by Otto Vondrak
Long Island 7285- Feel better now?
-otto-
-otto-
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by Clemuel
"Wearing my LIRR jacket..." ???
Hay, 7285... I'd be a bit careful here. I don't know what kind of jacket you were wearing, but buying an LIRR parka on ebay and wearing it to railfan or wearing a safety vest is definately a no-no.
Certainly if you're a kid, it shouldn't be any problem, but the paranoia is definately applying to younger and younger folks these days, and EngineerBob is Right On when he mentions the instant-cell-phone-complaint nonsense. People are like sheep. They hear stuff on TV News and see boogymen everywhere. I was chasing around more make-believe anthrax on trains and more suspicious greasy pizza boxes that I could count a year ago.
Wearing a LIRR jacket smacks of criminal impersonation, and someone who doesn't understand this hobby's oddities may not understand your prancing around private property with LIRR uniform clothes but without an LIRR job.
Just be careful with this stuff and you'll never have a problem.
And on a serious note, if you don't like the direction the Country and your civil liberties are heading, get involved, find out who your congressman is and write to him. Look at his voting record on the 'Net. Let him know you vote or you will vote and what direction you want to see...
Clem
Hay, 7285... I'd be a bit careful here. I don't know what kind of jacket you were wearing, but buying an LIRR parka on ebay and wearing it to railfan or wearing a safety vest is definately a no-no.
Certainly if you're a kid, it shouldn't be any problem, but the paranoia is definately applying to younger and younger folks these days, and EngineerBob is Right On when he mentions the instant-cell-phone-complaint nonsense. People are like sheep. They hear stuff on TV News and see boogymen everywhere. I was chasing around more make-believe anthrax on trains and more suspicious greasy pizza boxes that I could count a year ago.
Wearing a LIRR jacket smacks of criminal impersonation, and someone who doesn't understand this hobby's oddities may not understand your prancing around private property with LIRR uniform clothes but without an LIRR job.
Just be careful with this stuff and you'll never have a problem.
And on a serious note, if you don't like the direction the Country and your civil liberties are heading, get involved, find out who your congressman is and write to him. Look at his voting record on the 'Net. Let him know you vote or you will vote and what direction you want to see...
Clem
by Long Island 7285
The Jacket I have is the black one with the (SD60) patch as has my name inscribed on it.
It is really not somthing that i think would be issued to an employee, rather haveing to be purched to be worn on leisure on travel to and from work, what ever that indivisual chooses to do.
I do not have the heavy winter jacket that the track gangs and station cleaning employees ware.
I think we the railfans and the LIRR have to set guidelines with each other, thats the only way our hobby will work out in post 9-11 America. we cant have stupid things wipe hoppies off the map. and I will happen if this nonsence keeps up.
It is really not somthing that i think would be issued to an employee, rather haveing to be purched to be worn on leisure on travel to and from work, what ever that indivisual chooses to do.
I do not have the heavy winter jacket that the track gangs and station cleaning employees ware.
I think we the railfans and the LIRR have to set guidelines with each other, thats the only way our hobby will work out in post 9-11 America. we cant have stupid things wipe hoppies off the map. and I will happen if this nonsence keeps up.
by Head-end View
Thanks Clem and EngineerBob for your balanced viewpoint on this sensitive issue. A couple of points need to be reinforced here.
First, some here keep talking about the railroad being public property. I thought this too, until some employees on another board explained that station platforms, etc. are railroad property, which apparently is not public property. And the railroad can I guess, call the shots on its own property. I'm not a lawyer, but that's my understanding anyway. In New Jersey the attorney general clarified the matter in that state, saying that NJ Transit could not prohibit people from taking train photos from public streets next to, but off railroad property. It's important to understand the difference.
Second, as others said above, many times when the MTA Police question someone, it's because their dispatcher sent them to check out a report of a suspicious person. The officer has to carry out the assignment given to him (or her); that's their job. They may even think that it's B/S, and might understand railfans, but they have to do what they are told by their bosses. Maybe the reason they didn't question the fan at KO was because they didn't receive a complaint about him, and they understood what he was doing.
I recently took a few photos myself while walking through Mineola Station on my break from work, and wasn't bothered by anyone. I use a simple pocket camera. And I snapped pictures of trains leaving the station, so the crew doesn't really notice me. And then I keep walking and leave the area. So if anyone called me in, I'm gone from the platform area long before the police arrive. If I saw any police hanging around, like they sometimes do, I would just wait 'til another day, so as not to attract attention. You gotta use discretion and good judgement.
First, some here keep talking about the railroad being public property. I thought this too, until some employees on another board explained that station platforms, etc. are railroad property, which apparently is not public property. And the railroad can I guess, call the shots on its own property. I'm not a lawyer, but that's my understanding anyway. In New Jersey the attorney general clarified the matter in that state, saying that NJ Transit could not prohibit people from taking train photos from public streets next to, but off railroad property. It's important to understand the difference.
Second, as others said above, many times when the MTA Police question someone, it's because their dispatcher sent them to check out a report of a suspicious person. The officer has to carry out the assignment given to him (or her); that's their job. They may even think that it's B/S, and might understand railfans, but they have to do what they are told by their bosses. Maybe the reason they didn't question the fan at KO was because they didn't receive a complaint about him, and they understood what he was doing.
I recently took a few photos myself while walking through Mineola Station on my break from work, and wasn't bothered by anyone. I use a simple pocket camera. And I snapped pictures of trains leaving the station, so the crew doesn't really notice me. And then I keep walking and leave the area. So if anyone called me in, I'm gone from the platform area long before the police arrive. If I saw any police hanging around, like they sometimes do, I would just wait 'til another day, so as not to attract attention. You gotta use discretion and good judgement.