Return of The Atlantic --- ever??

I was talking earlier today with a visiting acquaintance who is an American customs agent working in Toronto. We were discussing transportation and he, having grown up in Maine, was very familiar with VIA's Atlantic Limited that used to run from Montreal to Halifax over the CP's Moosehead Sub and the CN's Saint John-to-Moncton line. I said that I, and many Mainers, wished the train were still running. He responded that he sees it as a distinct possibility, if not probability. VIA is quite receptive to public input, and this is a matter that has been on the back burner for some time. With the price of gas creeping ever upward, public transport --- especially trains --- is looking to become an increasingly "viable alternative," to coin a well-worn phrase.

I asked him about border hassles, given what has developed since 9/11; he said he doesn't see this as being significantly worse a problem than it was before the train stopped running in 1994.

Moncton to Montreal, through Maine, is a much more direct route than having to travel up through Edmundston. What's more, Saint John, one of the Atlantic Provinces' three largest cities, and Fredericton, the provincial capital, would once again have train service (well, Fredericton Junction, anyway), and Mainers would be able to enjoy the train trips eastward and westward that so many enjoyed in previous generations.

It would be a sorely-needed financial boost to the MM&A and the Maine Eastern Railway, too.

Bring back the Atlantic!! :-D

Any comments ---?

Unfortunately, I think VIA has other priorities it would like to venture in first. Is the line across Maine even up to par from when VIA last regularly ran over it? Someone had mentioned it had deteriorated. A stub coach train from St. John to Moncton(?) may not be a bad idea.

There was convincing talk of VIA getting the Skeena extended down to Edmonton this year (after cutting back on the fourth Skeena frequency this year) and possibly running a six-day a week service between Vancouver and Jasper during the summer months.

The sell was that the Skeena would terminate in Edmonton, opening this train up to a greater population flow and closer airport access. This to me seemed like a very wise move. But freight RR cooperation would be needed. Not sure what the final roadblock was for this not to have happened.

The Vancouver to Jasper train six-days-a-week would help VIA cut down on the number of cars being used on its Canadian - from end to end (Toronto to Vancouver), as there's a lot of traffic between Jasper and Vancouver, versus Jasper and Toronto - or so the study went. VIA has enough of the Budd Stainless Steel cars freed up for such a service.

I'd personally like to see VIA back on the CP route - at least from Calgary (Winnipeg would be great!) to Vancouver. But the Rocky Mountaineer has a stronghold on this routing and politics at play have kept VIA at bay! I really don't undersand Rocky Mountaineer on this issue - as it has an established customer clientele for its trains. VIA would be serving the local community (YEAR ROUND!) and providing intermediate and overnight sleeper service for its tourist clientele.

VIA and Rocky Mountaineer have long since diverged on service. Both have great service, but it's a different type of service. The market is there on the old CP route for VIA. I am reminded every time I stay at the Banff Springs Fairmont Hotel or Lake Louise Fairmont Hotel realize the closest the Canadian will come to that area is some 240KM north - in Jasper!

Also - could VIA re-launch twice a week service from Halifax to Sydney, now that the line is a little more secure from bankruptcy proceedings? A weekend operation would be best. VIA was hoping to add a second frequency, just before the train got pulled - Tuesday and Friday departures from Halifax I believe. Train operations to Sydney over the weekend would be much better than the Tuesday departure - but this at the mercy of equipment availability from the Ocean - which the service was pulled from.

A revived “Atlantic” with convenient endpoint times is probably not workable anymore. The old Atlantic required roughly 15.5 hrs between Moncton and Montreal and with the slower track condition of the short-line route now of the former CP across Maine and post 9/11 border procedures it would probably take a lot longer. A “sealed” train like the Atlantic was in it’s final years, probably wouldn’t be permitted anymore.

But what about a daytime schedule from Moncton to Montreal on the NTR via Edmundston?

This is a fast, CTC signalled railroad and probably has additional capacity. Based on current and former schedules a train could easily cover this in roughly 12 hours: depart Moncton at 10am and arrive in Montreal by 9pm. Eastbound: Montreal 9 am and into Moncton by 10pm. (Lose an hour e/b, gain w/b)

Moncton-Edmundston: An RDC did it in 4.5 hrs in 1990
Edmundston-St. Andre Jct: 85 miles in 2.5 hrs (25 mile of the Pellitier Subdivision never had scheduled service but the old Monk Sub. RDC covered 60 miles of this in 1 3/4 hr in 1979)
St Andre Jct - Charny: Ocean does it in roughly 2.5 hr.
Charny-Montreal: Ren equipped train 2.5 hrs.

As a lot of travellers are going beyond Montreal, this schedule might generate enough traffic that would allow for the resumption of the overnight “Enterprise” between Montreal and Toronto.

A couple of disadvantages:

The 4 lane Trans Canada should be fully completed through New Brunswick by 2007 and roughly parallels the NTR route via Edmundston. This is also the bus route between the Maritimes and Montreal.

A revived “Atlantic” serving Sussex-Saint John would probably have a greater population base to draw from but the Grand Falls/St Leonard/Edmundston area is also fairly well populated. Fredericton would be served by a bus connection to McGivney (50km) instead of 30km to Fredericton Jct. (A connecting bus could even begins it’s run in Saint John, stopping in Fredericton on the way to McGivney) Moncton is a good traffic generator for VIA and a daytime schedule would probably draw additional traffic without taking away from the Ocean

I believe that if VIA were to consider restarting the "Atlantic Limited", that the state of Maine would find a way to chip in funding to MMA for the necessary rail improvements and station reconstructions.

Does anyone in this forum believe that if the Maine DOT requested/lobbied VIA for a service restoration that they might be more likely to consider it?

But it would run through Maine largely in the middle of the night. So this would no be passenger friendly hours for passengers in Maine, and thus not benefit them to the fullest, so to speak. With that said, someone would need to do some heavy hitting in Maine to revive it! Then as mentioned you got two border crossings to deal with - getting in and out of Maine on the way through to Canadian cities etc.

I'd love to see some reincarnation of the Atlantic, but I just don't see it in the future at present.

Did it always run through Maine in the middle of the night? Would it be possible to change this timetable in some way that is still convenient for both Canada and Maine, especially if state-funding was involved? Would this change necessitate higher frequencies of service?

If the Atlantic was to be resurrected, by VIA or any independent company, maybe the Downeaster runs could be extended to connect with the Atlantic. It could make it easier for someone wanting to go to Halifax from Boston.

Halifax - Boston... can you say Gull? I wonder if coordinated through sleepers of some type of service would be worth considering. Probably only one coach but certainly an interesting proposition.

I personally don't think the Downeaster is ever going to be extended beyond Brunswick for a variety of reasons...

1. To maintain current service frequencies on the Portland - Boston corridor without obtaining/leasing more equipment the train can't go much further than Brunswick before it turns.

2. I do not believe that demand for passenger service north of Brunswick is the same as south of Brunswick, therefore it would seem unwise to extend the train into areas were it won't get used.