Railroad Forums
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johnthefireman wrote:True high speed trains (ie speeds upwards of 250 km/h) are due to start in Morocco in 2018 (link). I understand some of the rolling stock has already arrived for testing.I find it hard to believe there is enough demand for a high speed line on that route. But I imagine it is basically a vanity project ordered by the king.
george matthews wrote:I find it hard to believe there is enough demand for a high speed line on that route.From this article:
the trains will carry passengers from Tangier to Casablanca and cut travel time more than in half. Funded by governments in Morocco, France, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates, the project... is expected to help ferry passengers from city to city in a little more than two hours... Tangier, an entry point for many coming to Morocco on flights or ferries from Spain, Italy, and other Mediterranean countries, is currently about five hours by rail from Casablanca. Current trains carry about three million people annually along the coast between the two, but the Moroccan national rail operator ONCF anticipates that number will grow once the new cars begin service next year, with the aim of six million passengers a year after three years of operation...
george matthews wrote:But I imagine it is basically a vanity project ordered by the king.That's incredibly cynical and probably offensive. Is the French TGV a vanity project ordered by the President? The Chinese high speed lines? HS1 and HS2 in UK? Is Africa not allowed to develop through improving its transport infrastructure?
johnthefireman wrote:Morocco is not a rich country. The king has almost unlimited powers and essentially no restraints on his power. I do not think Morocco is the kind of country that needs a very fast rail system. (Actually, I would be surprised if in fact these trains run much faster than existing trains.) I do think the country needs sensible investment in projects that will benefit ordinary people. The money spent on this project will be diverted from more useful investments.george matthews wrote:I find it hard to believe there is enough demand for a high speed line on that route.From this article:
the trains will carry passengers from Tangier to Casablanca and cut travel time more than in half. Funded by governments in Morocco, France, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates, the project... is expected to help ferry passengers from city to city in a little more than two hours... Tangier, an entry point for many coming to Morocco on flights or ferries from Spain, Italy, and other Mediterranean countries, is currently about five hours by rail from Casablanca. Current trains carry about three million people annually along the coast between the two, but the Moroccan national rail operator ONCF anticipates that number will grow once the new cars begin service next year, with the aim of six million passengers a year after three years of operation...george matthews wrote:But I imagine it is basically a vanity project ordered by the king.That's incredibly cynical and probably offensive. Is the French TGV a vanity project ordered by the President? The Chinese high speed lines? HS1 and HS2 in UK? Is Africa not allowed to develop through improving its transport infrastructure?
george matthews wrote:I do not think Morocco is the kind of country that needs a very fast rail system. (Actually, I would be surprised if in fact these trains run much faster than existing trains.) I do think the country needs sensible investment in projects that will benefit ordinary people. The money spent on this project will be diverted from more useful investments.You don't think it needs a fast rail system, but obviously Morocco, France, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates do. There's always somebody who doesn't think a country needs high speed rail - look at the reactionaries in UK who oppose HS2.
Fares for the train have not been announced, but they will likely be more expensive than the current train ticket, which costs about $20 one-way, while flights are around $200 round-trip. Still, officials say it won't set travelers back too much: "We will run trains intended for Moroccans and thus adapted to the purchasing power of Moroccans," ONCF's director general Mohamed Rabie Khlie told Le Monde. "We do not want a train reserved for high-end customers."How do you know that the money spent on this will be diverted from "more useful investments"? Are you saying that you have evidence that all of this money would still be available for any other use, rather than being earmarked for high speed rail?
The trains are scheduled to run at 320 km/h. Do you have some evidence for your surprise at this speed?My main worry is that the track will not be maintained at a safe level to cope with this speed. Very small defects can be fatal for a fast train and less dangerous for a normal train. And note that I have spent many years in several different countries in Africa. It is true my experience of Morocco is not great but I have seen enough to be doubtful about running a very fast train in such conditions.
johnthefireman wrote:With all due respect, George, both Africa and rail technology have changed drastically in the last two or three decades.We shall see.
