• Rail travellers a dying breed

  • Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of Canada and the United States.
Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of Canada and the United States.

Moderators: Komachi, David Benton

  by David Benton
 
well in New Zealand anyway .
the only North island long distance passenger train left will cease operation at the end of September . this is bad news .
it doesnt appear as if there is the political will to save it .

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425823/796433

There's a video that shows a bit of the route too .

  by David Benton
 
Overlander battle gathers steam

Saturday July 29, 2006
By Anne Beston


A last-ditch effort was launched yesterday to try to save the Overlander, while a new-found popularity means the train's last journey is booked out.

Train company Toll NZ said there were no public seats left on the final service between Auckland and Wellington on September 30.

"People who have always planned to do the trip have suddenly realised they've only got another two months so there has been an upswing in bookings," said company spokeswoman Sue Foley. "I can understand the nostalgia but the reality is, no one used it, the demand just wasn't there."

Toll staff would be on the final trip along with media but there were no public seats left. "It's going to be quite a sad day for staff so we want to do what's appropriate," she said.

Yesterday mid-North Island-based regional council Horizons announced that four councils had joined forces to fight for retention of the service. Chairman Garrick Murfitt said the announcement of the end of the train trip had come as "a bit of a bombshell" and businesses in small towns along the route would be hit hard.

The Station Cafe in National Park was just one example, he said, with 39,414 Overlander passengers being patrons last year.

"If the Overlander goes, so will those people and a business will lose a million dollars a year," he said.

The heads of Auckland Regional Council, Environment Waikato, Greater Wellington Regional Council and Horizons would meet next month to go through the options.

A trip to Wellington to plead for the service to be publicly subsidised was one.

"We subsidise Air NZ or assist a company such as Air NZ, shouldn't we assist a company such as Toll?" he said. "We recognise the urgency this requires and the four regional councils affected will be working together to see how we can sort this out."

Toll approached Finance Minister Michael Cullen several weeks ago to discuss a public subsidy but both the Government and the rail company decided declining passenger numbers meant the service could not be saved.

Losses on the service were more than $2 million a year, including capital costs.

  by george matthews
 
It is not unknown for private companies that have franchised public services to announce the closure of services with the purpose of screwing more money out of the government, either national or local.

In my local area, Dorset, the company that has recently taken over the local buses has done just that. They are trying to get the County Council to pay more for some routes.

It may be that Toll is trying t on. It seems incredible that there can't be a train service between the biggest cities of the North Island.

  by David Benton
 
they have already tried to get more money from the government . Remeber there are no subsides at all for long distance passenger services in NZ . The fact that the government bailed out Air NZ to the tune of hundreds of millions doesnt seem to matter .
I doubt wether too many tears are been shed in the 2 main cities about it ( most would fly ). It is the small towns that will feel the pinch , and wil fight to save it . It seems ironic that the move to the proportional represeantations in our political system , has made the electorates twice as big . Therefore there are only 1/2 as many mps who's constituents are affected . I think the whole central north island is probably one electroate now . And the greens seem to be saying we cant save the overlander , best to lobby for a replacement in the future .
But there is a glimmer of hope , The local councils have quite abit of clout , but they really need to be joined by the likes of Hamilton , palmerston north , and more unlikely , Auckland and Hamilton .
  by David Benton
 
Freight the next to go on the main trunk line?

Sunday July 30, 2006
By Pam Graham


The body blow the main trunk line took with the axing of Auckland-Wellington passenger services last week could soon be followed up with a knock-out punch of freight services, industry sources have said.

Rail operator Toll New Zealand's board meets tomorrow amid speculation in the transport industry that more closures of rail services are in the offing - including the backbone main trunk link.

The Australian-owned company last week announced the closure of the Overlander passenger service between Wellington and Auckland from the end of September.

The passenger service was losing money and the Government decided not to subsidise it.

Industry observers said some freight services are also uneconomic and that even the future of freight on the main trunk line used by the Overlander is not secure.

"The reality for New Zealand is that there is a nightmare scenario in which Toll just puts railfreight on trucks," said Brian Cronin of the Rail and Maritime Transport Union.

A crunch time will come in long-running negotiations between Toll and the Government over access fees to the Government-owned track, an industry observer said. Toll could pull services.

Toll NZ chief executive David Jackson said he could not comment on which lines were uneconomic or what would happen to them.

Industry observers said the coal line between Lyttelton and the West Coast and the route between Tauranga and Auckland used by Port of Tauranga to get freight into Auckland are economic, as are milk trains used by Fonterra in the lower North Island.

Beyond that, it is debatable. It is not clear that the main trunk itself is economic and will survive with Toll as the long-term operator at the current fee level.

However, Toll may be painting a bleaker picture than necessary behind the scenes to increase pressure on the Government to contribute to the network upkeep.

Toll is understood to have briefed major customers. The bleak picture may simply be a negotiating tactic.

While Toll will be hurting from higher fuel prices, it should be gaining a competitive advantage over road because of rail's innate greater fuel efficiency.

One of the issues with the Overlander service was the poor state of the network as well as the carriages.

Speed restrictions operating on tracks because of their poor standard added as much as an hour to the journ ey.

There are many legal complexities involved but in the long term other passenger operators can come in.

In the case of freight lines, another operator can come in immediately if Toll gives up a line.

Queensland Rail, the operator that has emerged as Toll Holdings' only real competition in Australia, is seen as the only potential new operator in New Zealand. It has been on the acquisition trail.

The Government recovers all of the expenses of the network from the operators in access fees after investing $200 million in the track when Toll took control of Tranz Rail following its financial collapse in 2003 .

Toll operates most rail services in New Zealand except the Auckland passenger network.

- NZPA

  by David Benton
 
Apathy derails national treasure
31 July 2006

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/waikatotim ... 80,00.html


The near silence since Toll NZ's decision to can the Overlander train service between Wellington and Auckland has proved one thing -- it is the right time to say goodbye to what really should be a national treasure.

Toll announced last week the service would end in September, prompted by low passenger numbers - with fewer than 100 people taking the 12-hour trip on most runs.

The service will end two years shy of its 100th birthday. New Zealanders who haven't travelled on the train will have missed one of the best ways to see the country. The views - particularly through the central North Island, over viaducts and around the precipitous Raurimu Spiral -- are breath-taking.

But if people aren't using the service, logic says it should close.

Of course, there are reasons for the lack of patronage. And blame can be shared around.

Kiwis have become too wedded to their cars; and plane trips, particularly in recent years, have been remarkably cheap. Train fares, Auckland-Wellington one way, have been about $100, making a one-hour flight at little more than double the price for early birds an attractive alternative.

Toll too should put its hand up. It has hardly spent the money to make the trains overly comfortable and attractive. And as Green Party leader Jeanette Fitzsimons said last week, the train ride has barely been promoted as a tourist attraction. That's lamentable, particularly with the revival of trains worldwide.

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Look to Australia, where the iconic Ghan trip, the Adelaide-Darwin run that spears through the Australian outback, had $NZ1.48 billion poured into it early this century. The money went on a 1420km track extension from Darwin to Alice Springs. The inaugural train included 43 carriages hauled by two locomotives, making it Australia's longest passenger train at 1069m. It continues to draw people from around the world.

But the opposite has happened here. The Overlander's night-time equivalent, the Northerner, was pulled from service about the time The Ghan length-of-Australia service was launched in 2004. Just last year Waikato towns Te Kauwhata, Huntly and Te Awamutu (along with four others in the North Island) were axed as stops from the Overlander route as Toll looked to shorten the trip.

Now the whole thing is doomed. And does anyone care? Only Ruapehu District Council Mayor Sue Morris has been outspoken. She said she had no warning or consultation about the decision. "It's a huge disappointment and a huge blow to the Ruapehu district," Ms Morris said. The service was "an integral part of the entire North Island infrastructure".

The Government has opted not to front with a $1.75 million annual subsidy to keep it running. Why should it when Kiwis are too lazy to use the thing?

  by David Benton
 
John Broadwell: End of Overlander a backwards move

Wednesday August 2, 2006


The Labour Government says it is "committed to developing a sustainable transport system that is safe, affordable and responsive to the needs of users".

It talks of a transport system contributing to New Zealand's economic development, social and environmental goals. "Achieving those goals depends on having a strong, integrated transport sector and good infrastructure."

This opening statement of Labour's 2005 transport policy seems attractive. But it's been conveniently forgotten in the case of the imminent closure of the Overlander passenger train service.

Forward-thinking countries are pouring billions of dollars into updating their railway systems. New Zealand meanwhile chooses to close its only North Island mainline passenger train.

China has recently completed a huge new railway project into Tibet costing nearly $7 billion. Richard Branson in Britain proposes providing 320km/h trains between London and Edinburgh estimated at $15 billion. Countries as disparate as Brazil, Saudi Arabia and Malaysia are investing heavily in railway services.

So why this closure in New Zealand? The answer is simple - lack of political will.

The problem is deeply rooted in the evils of rail privatisation and the god of shareholder profits. In all other forms of transport in New Zealand you can see continuous governmental and non-governmental organisations improving and investing in transport, designed to offer the fastest, smoothest and latest way to transport people and goods throughout the country.

The state-supported Air New Zealand is constantly updating its aircraft. More airlines are offering better and more frequent low cost services. Investment in shipping is increasing. Look at the new inter-island ferry Kaitaki with its larger capacity, higher speeds and greater comfort.

Roads, too, are constantly being upgraded. There are increased numbers of new cars, buses and lorries using the New Zealand road network. Billions of dollars from government coffers are being invested in New Zealand roads. These roads are then freely used by coach companies and freight lorries in direct competition to rail services.

The same level of funding should be ploughed into railways to create a level playing field. Britain is investing heavily in small lines through government investment, providing seed funding, creating partnerships between local government and community groups. New Zealand's railways meanwhile have become the Cinderella of the transport sector, still using carriages at least 30 years old. There is no apparent pride in the service, not even a lick of paint on the locomotives or rolling stock.

What are the direct and immediate economic effects of the closure of the Overlander service?

Service businesses along the length of the line will suffer substantially. Small to medium enterprises such as the cafe at National Park are set to lose staff. Toll NZ itself will have to redeploy the 35 staff now employed on the Overlander. The tourism infrastructure will be depleted in every small community along the rail corridor.

There will also be fewer travel options for tourists. And it means the loss of a truly great train journey. The knock-on economic losses are not difficult to predict.

The Overlander is first and foremost an iconic service, as much a part of the Kiwi identity as rugby or the beach in summer. And then we suffer the indignity of the facts being glossed over by Toll and the Government with business-speak. There was no consultation with the public, no warning given, no information from Government until we were presented with a fait accompli.

The fascinating history of the rail in Taumarunui "On the Main Trunk Line" and the subsequent opening-up of the central North Island to loggers and other settlers, even to New Zealand itself, is invested in this line and its passenger service. Where are the politicians with vision, courage and marketing knowledge? Are we as a country only interested in short term solutions?

Trains are green and fuel-efficient. They assist the country to meet its Kyoto Protocol obligations. Fewer cars would be on the roads if railways became a serious alternative to cars, coach operators and airlines. With rising fuel costs the passenger train will again come into its own and should not be dismissed as a service to be sacrificed on the altar of company profits.

Trains are efficient people-movers; they are a great way to travel, stress-free and relaxing. Thrown into the mix is all that glorious New Zealand countryside, only to be enjoyed from the safety and comfort of the train.

The sum of all these losses to New Zealand would be far greater than the relatively minor loss of the $1.7 million dollars a year support funding requested from the Government by Toll.

Vision, belief, marketing and political will is all that is needed to put matters right. Buy new stock and locomotives, rebuild old bridges, extend the overhead cables that are already there, improve the track. High-speed and Advanced Passenger Trains (APTs) are fashionable in Europe and in other countries.

Cut the journey time between Auckland and Wellington by 50 per cent. Create double track the length of the North Island: trains can then pass each other at speed.

Create an identity and use the best marketing companies available. Enthuse your customers. Offer shorter themed travel options such as steam-engine weekends. Create journeys from Taumarunui via the Raurimu Spiral to National Park. Stop off at the excellent Station Cafe in National Park as 35,000 railway passengers a year now do.

Offer skiing packages, or packages to the theatres and galleries in Wellington and Auckland with luxury dining or themed visits to Te Papa. Reinstate the Geyserland Express. Make it fun. The list is endless.

Labour has earmarked funding of $22.3 billion for its transport programme over the 10-year period commencing 2005.

Let's call for the railway passenger service to benefit from a significantly increased proportion of this money.

Take the railways out of private or company hands with their governing bottom-line mentality, return them to state control where they belong and reinvest as a nation in the vision.

* John Broadwell is a King Country school teacher.
  by David Benton
 
> Horizons Regional Council Press Release
> Fri 28 Jul 06
> I have recently travelled on two Canadian sevices. VIA Jasper
to Prince Rupert a subsidised service running 3 or 4 times a
week 2 classes, one for locals and a dome and skyliner for
tourists .Last week on the Whistler Mountineer strickly tourist .the
tourists on both of these trains where European ,American,
Australian, and did not seem to mind dropping big bucks to ride
the trains. both of which slowed and stopped for photo shots. I
rode the overlander two years ago and it was pretty grim
compared with the above two. But the scenery was every bit as
good.
> Four regional councils' have joined together in a bid to get the
Overlander
> service continued after Government turned down a subsidy
request from Toll
> NZ.
>
> Auckland Regional Council, Environment Waikato, Greater
Wellington Regional
> Council and Horizons Regional Council are preparing a paper
that will be put
> to the Regional Chair's committee in Wellington on August 18.
>
> Horizons chairman Garrick Murfitt says Horizons has
responded to a request
> from Auckland Regional Council chairman Mike Lee for
support.
>
> "The Overlander passes through several districts in our
Region and the loss
> will affect many people."
>
> "For example the Station Café in National Park had 39,414
passengers pass
> through its doors last year. If the Overlander goes, so will those
people
> and a business will lose a million dollars a year. And of course
there are
> others."
>
> The chairman says the four regional councils are investigating
the
> possibilities of getting the Overlander's service extended in the
best
> interests of economic development and tourism opportunities
in the North
> Island.
>
> "From our perspective the communities of Ruapehu,
Rangitikei, Manawatu,
> Horowhenua and Palmerston North all benefit from the
Overlander and
> Horizons, which has a land transport management function, is
happy to
> advocate in the interests of the districts and our Region."
>
> Due to be terminated in September, time is running out for the
Overlander
> says Cr Murfitt.
>
> "We recognise the urgency this requires and the four regional
councils
> affected will be working together and with our districts to see
how we can
> sort this out."
  by David Benton
 
well looks like i miss out oon a final ride . The overlander is completely sold out from now till the last run on te september the 30 th .
  by David Benton
 
Manawatu Standard
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/manawatust ... a6003,00.h
tml

Hornblow joins fight to keep train
10 August 2006

Palmerston North's acting mayor John Hornblow is supporting the
action taken by regional and district councils in the North Island to
retain the two daily Overlander passenger trains.

The Overlander will stop running on September 30.

Other councils are writing to Palmerston North City Council seeking
support prior to a meeting later this month at parliament where they
will request that the government joins them in seeking ways to
continue the service.

Cr Hornblow says the link is important economically for the city and
the region as it brings tourists to the city and provides a low-cost
transport alternative between several North Island centres.

"Train transport around the world is on the rise and it makes sense
that, with an increased profile and emphasis, New Zealand can
capitalise on this trend. The route we are seeking to save goes
through a world heritage park and there is magnificent scenery
throughout the journey."

Cr Hornblow wants the government to talk to affected communities
about the impact of the loss on them and to the Toll NZ about ways
that it can keep the Overlander operating by making short-term
funding available.

"I'm really concerned that successive governments have downgraded
rail services and I believe it is very short-sighted in the light of
rising fuel prices and the need for alternative sustainable
transport."


This town is where i grew up , and regularly used to ake the overlander down there to visit my parents .

with a name like hornblow , no wonder the counciller supports trains !
  by David Benton
 
Waikato Times
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,375 ... 20,00.html

Heading off the rails
09 August 2006
By SUSAN PEPPERELL

Susan Pepperell boards the Overlander for the scenic leg south from
Hamilton to National Park and finds sadness among those affected as
the iconic train's last stop looms.

There's a pamphlet you can pick up at the Frankton Railway Station
called Discover New Zealand by Train.

So far, no one has added "while you still can", but it must only be a
matter of time.

The Overlander – once daily between Auckland and Wellington and vice
versa – is due in soon, and prospective passengers, assorted bags and
two camellia trees are being fussed over by Monica the manager, who
accompanies the train to National Park and back. She is luggage
helper, husky-voiced tour commentator, snack seller, ticket collector
and mother hen rolled into one extremely energetic TranzScenic
employee.

"You'll enjoy it," she says, patting a passenger on the arm. "The
main thing is don't get off if it's not your stop." As she darts away
she adds, slightly mysteriously: "It's not as funny as it sounds."

As it turns out, the first stop from Hamilton is about 2km down the
track out the back of Melville. On the horizon is the Mormon temple
at Tuhikaramea. Monica's offsider Frank Petersen is on the PA
explaining why we're at a standstill. Either that or what's available
at Snacks on Tracks, the buffet counter. But train announcement rules
mean only the second half of every sentence can be audible words. The
rest must be a mix of important-sounding mumbles and ominous
silences. This, however, is perfectly clear: "Do not try to alight
from the train when it is not your destination. Thank you."

Clearly, Frank and Monica have had experiences they'd rather not
repeat.

The smell of coffee wafts down the carriage, and Te Awamutu passes
by. Into the King Country and the scenery changes from soft green
paddocks to rugged ground and lots of hills. Patchwork corrugated
iron haysheds and cows with enormous udders, close to calving, share
the landscape.

It's a view of rural New Zealand no one will see after September. At
least, not quite like this: close up, in slow motion and without the
worries of being on the road.

September 30 marks the last journey of the Overlander.

Despite plans for last-minute efforts to save the service, there is
virtually no hope. It is uneconomic, unpopular, too long, too slow.

Everyone agrees it's a sad end to a service that has existed since
1909. But Toll New Zealand, which owns it and operates it under its
passenger service division TranzScenic, can't stand the losses any
more, and the Government, having studied the figures, won't subsidise
it after realising it would cost $1.75 million a year plus $500,000
in capital costs.

Frank isn't surprised but, he says, "it's not a nice feeling".

"I've had some really great times on here. And the scenery is so
beautiful."

He is expecting to be made redundant although Toll spokesperson Sue
Foley says the company hasn't yet decided how many jobs will be lost.
There are estimates of 35.

If it does happen, it will be the third time Frank has been laid off
in the 30 years since he emigrated from Denmark.

"I'm starting not to like this country very much," he says and looks
glum.

Monica, meanwhile, is back on the PA pointing out a family of
kunekune pigs wallowing near the tracks. "Get over there and have a
look," she says pointing to the window.

Royce Edwards stays put. The Hamilton 70-year-old is blind in one eye
and partially sighted in the other. He walks with a cane and has been
a regular on the Overlander for many years. Usually he'll be at
Frankton about once a month but since the announcement of its demise
he's been turning up once a week.

"It's a day out for me. It's pretty good, you can have a meal on the
train if you want, and cups of tea. That'll go by the board next
month. But that's life isn't it?"

Shortly before National Park, heading south, is the "world famous"
Raurimu Spiral. This engineering marvel puts the 352 bridges and 14
tunnels on the trip into the shade. The spiral solved the problem of
how trains could climb 132m from a valley on to the volcanic plateau.
Frank eagerly explains how it works over the PA.

At National Park, the two Overlanders meet. The northbound train
chugs around the southbound and backs up to the platform. Staff swap
over and go back to where they came from.

Waiting to greet both sets of passengers is Max, the jack russell
with the turbo tail, wearing his high-visibility vest the train staff
had tailor-made for him.

Max belongs to the Station Cafe and keeps passengers company as they
line up to be served during the 45-minute stop. Warren Furner owns
the Station Cafe. Five years ago the building was derelict.

"It was an embarrassment to our community and one of the reasons I
got into the cafe business."

Warren Furner recalls the days the National Park Railway Station had
a stationmaster and staff. But in the 1980s the district's activities
started to decline. The Ministry of Works pulled out, the prison
closed, the school went from 250 children to 50 and, like many small
rural communities New Zealand-wide, publicly funded services were
withdrawn. The train station was among the casualties.

Furner became a district councillor, and National Park started to
focus on its tourism potential. Eight years ago Thomas Whitehead
bought the National Park Backpackers. Back then up to a dozen people
would book in before starting out on the Tongariro Crossing, one of
the country's most popular day walks. These days, on a good weekend,
there will be 90-plus, many hopping off the train. Add in the ski
trade and it's not difficult to see why Whitehead believes Toll and
the Government haven't done anyone any favours.

"The Government spends millions of dollars promoting New Zealand
overseas and then says `sorry, we can't transport you around'.

"It's a shame for the whole of the country."

Furner's cafe employs eight full-time and two part-time staff and he
has recently taken on an apprentice.

"What the train did was enough to guarantee income in the low season
without reducing everyone's hours."

Come October 1, he estimates he'll need only four staff.

"That's the reality. This will have a huge impact on small towns."

Until the end of September, he is putting his time into council
efforts to lobby the Government. Ruapehu Mayor Sue Morris says it is
up to central government to save the service.

Furner says he is hopeful Taupo MP Mark Burton may be able to
persuade his Cabinet colleagues to stump up.

At National Park, Christine Brears, from the Taumarunui Community
Kokiri Health Trust, is waiting to collect a special passenger. It's
John Ibekwe, Taumarunui's new doctor. The Nigerian got off a flight
from Dallas at Wellington and straight on to the Overlander. It's his
first time in New Zealand and Brears wanted him to see a bit of the
country before starting work.

He's impressed –- particularly when the clouds lift and the mountains
are revealed at their pristine best. "Very scenic," he declares.

Brears is glad but annoyed that another service is being lost to
Taumarunui.

"Planes don't land in Taumarunui and it's a two-hour drive to
Hamilton."

Trouble is, there are not enough people willing to spend 12 hours
getting from one end of the North Island to the other. Foley says the
TranzAlpine between Christchurch and Greymouth carries 200,000
passengers a year, compared to 90,000 in the Overlander's heyday.

"It's more than halved since then. Twelve hours is too much. I
appreciate that people are sad to see it go but how many have ever
used it?"

Tickets, on special, are $99 one way. This week, Air New Zealand, on
its internet grab-a-seat promotion, was offering tickets between
Hamilton and Christchurch for $59.

Ironically, bookings are heavy on the Overlander from now through
next month. Some days the train is full. People who always meant to
do the trip one day have realised it's now or never.

Like Cathie and Colin Phillips from Great Barrier Island. They're off
to the Constable exhibition at Te Papa in Wellington. Cathie reckons
it's more than 50 years since she was on a train.

"It was just after the Tangiwai disaster. I remember looking down and
seeing bits of the carriages in the mud."

Tangiwai was late Christmas Eve, 1953. A mudflow wiped out the bridge
at Tangiwai near Waiouru and 151 people died.

Every Christmas Eve since, the overnight Northerner slowed enough for
a bouquet of flowers to be dropped into the river as a tribute. Or at
least they did until two years ago when the Northerner was axed.

Cathie's enjoying the trip south. "You don't have to worry about the
traffic and you get to see the countryside."

She and Colin are typical of the domestic passengers on the
Overlander – older and not in a hurry to get anywhere. There are a
sprinkling of tourists too, the obligatory loud American, a young
English couple, and Scottish mother and daughter Elaine and Lynsay
Harris. They've already been on the TranzAlpine and have decided the
train is a great way to see the country.

"You can relax on a train," Lynsay says.

"We're so used to trains in Scotland and Europe," Elaine adds.

Up front is driver Paul Jensen, who in 2004 drove the last Northerner
from Wellington to Auckland. It's highly likely he'll repeat the
experience with the Overlander.

Train driving is the only job he's had and he likes the passenger
trains because he's not on his own. But after September, he'll be
back shunting freight.

Jensen believes his employers have been short-sighted about axing the
Overlander, particularly for towns like Taumarunui with a limited bus
service and no airport.

"I'll be sad to see it go," he says.

The train arrives at Frankton shortly before 5.30pm. Monica announces
its imminent arrival by declaring Hamilton a great place because she
lives there.

On the wall in the waiting room is a poster advertising the
Overlander and its "685km of photo opportunities". It's tempting to
add "but you'll have to take the bus".


pretty ironic that this kind of travel writing may have had some impact on ridership before the train was doomed .
  by David Benton
 
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story. ... 027AF10113

local government might have enough influence to save the overlander for a couple more years . But longterm , new carriages are needed , and its unlikely to be viable to buy them .
  by george matthews
 
David Benton wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story. ... 027AF10113

local government might have enough influence to save the overlander for a couple more years . But longterm , new carriages are needed , and its unlikely to be viable to buy them .
Could they buy secondhand from someone like Queensland Railways? Or even South Africa?

  by David Benton
 
The most likely source of secondhand carriages is british rail ! . Mark 2 carriages fit our loading gauge . they sem to find changing the bogies etc , no great problem . the main problem is rust , they have converted about 60 carriages already for commuter use , and find they have to virtually strip them right down , and renew most of it . apparently still alot cheaper than new carriages .
Some s/h queensland carriages are here on lease for commuter use , but theyr are pretty well clapped out .
Auckland has ex Perth dmu's , also having been rebuilt extensively .

Not aware of any carriages coming from south Africa ,though some steam locos have been brought in as big boys toys .

Japan seems a logical source , but nothing has come from there secondhand . they seem to think their equipment is too lightwieght , but they have supplied new equipment to NZ , which has lasted 30 years etc .

  by george matthews
 
David Benton wrote:Auckland has ex Perth dmu's , also having been rebuilt extensively .
I remember those DMUs from 20 years ago (before electrification). I wouldn't think they are up to much.
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