R7 Trains that Terminate at Temple and Suburban

Can any of you guys tell me what happens to the equipment of the R7 trains that run between Temple University and Trenton? Is there a yard at Temple? Does the equipment deadhead somewhere? Is it used on another route?

I'm specifically asking about trains 714, 9720, 9722, 7770, 4749, etc.

Probably goes to Roberts Ave. yard/shops...the newer facility just south of Wayne Junction.

Butlershops wrote:I'm specifically asking about trains 714, 9720, 9722, 7770, 4749, etc.

If the train number is a 9XXX, it goes to/from Roberts.
8XXX is to/from Market East.
7XXX to/from Suburban Station.
6XXX to/from Powelton
5XXX to/from Fern Rock (used during RailWorks[NSM])

4XXX indicates that the train does not follow the standard line pairing: the hundreds place of the train number designates the destination rather than the origin, so dispatchers will know from the number how to route the train. So for example, an Airport to Warminster train would be a 42XX while the return from Warminster to the airport would be a 41XX.

What does a zero in the hundreds place signify? In this case, I'm looking at run #4007 on the R3 line; you'd figure it would be a 63xx number, since the train is on the West Trenton line, and terminates at Powelton.

R3 Rider wrote:What does a zero in the hundreds place signify? In this case, I'm looking at run #4007 on the R3 line; you'd figure it would be a 63xx number, since the train is on the West Trenton line, and terminates at Powelton.

0 in the hundreds place is for a train destined to Bryn Mawr. So that's actually a West Trenton-Bryn Mawr trip (flipping as an inbound peak Bryn Mawr local), though the public timetable only shows it going as far as 30th Street.

BTW, to anticipate another question, some trains have a 0 in the thousands place (e.g. 0107) so as not to be confused with an Amtrak train of the same number.

Is it deadheading to Bryn Mawr? Because when that train stops at 30th, the announcement is always "The train on Track X will discharge passengers only."

R3 Rider wrote:Is it deadheading to Bryn Mawr? Because when that train stops at 30th, the announcement is always "The train on Track X will discharge passengers only."

It is quite likely deadheading, yes. That way, they can get the train turned for another peak trip ASAP. And if they don't have to discharge passengers at Bryn Mawr, they can come in on 3 track, and have one less track to cross over.

Just as inside information, Train 714 actually does run to Chestnut Hill East. It just does not carry passengers. I presume they need to skip the stops to get it up there faster to change ends.

There is another train that works similar to this. Train 518 is listed in the schedule as operating from Thorn to Temple U. One would think it goes into Roberts Yard. Well, it would have to be 9518 to do that. 518 actually operates Deadhead to Lansdale and turns to train 517. As far at the operations department is concerned, it is a through R5 Train, as 714 is a through R7 train. WE, the public, just can't use it as a through train.

A few other idosyncries to the SEPTA numbering System:

The 4000's trains, the ones which start on one route pair and end on another. While the hundreds collum is the destination line, the tens and ones collum is in the slot of the originating line.

Example, train 4711 starts in Doylestown and ends in Trenton. 700 for the R7 Line, and 011 for being between train 509 and 513 on the R5 Lansdale Side.

Trains that Deadhead between Thorn and Frazer are numbered 5000's. 5000's were designed to be Fern Rock trains mainly for use during the rail works project when service was suspended between Wayne Junction and Suburban Station. The SEPTA ETT still lists 5000's as Fern Rock trains, but the only train that does originate or terminate there, the early morning airport train, is just numbered 0101, not 5101.

The final numbering quirk, is that with the through routing through town, trains often change direction, thus are given an inappropriate direction number. Generally, even numbered train operate Northbound or Eastbound, while odd Numbered train run southbound or Westbound.

Well, when train 707 leaves Chestnut Hill East, it is traveling South, properly numbered as an odd train. When it gets to Zoo, it heads Westbound for less than a mile on the Harrisburg Line and then changes directions again, not headed eastbound by railroad direction to Trenton. Eastbound trains are suposed to be even numbered.

Amtrak happens to be guilty of this as well. Trains leaving New York to Albany Northbound are improperly numbered as odd numbers. Well, then the train gets to Albany and heads west to Buffolow, it is not properly numbered.

path18951 wrote:The final numbering quirk, is that with the through routing through town, trains often change direction, thus are given an inappropriate direction number. Generally, even numbered train operate Northbound or Eastbound, while odd Numbered train run southbound or Westbound.

Well, when train 707 leaves Chestnut Hill East, it is traveling South, properly numbered as an odd train. When it gets to Zoo, it heads Westbound for less than a mile on the Harrisburg Line and then changes directions again, not headed eastbound by railroad direction to Trenton. Eastbound trains are suposed to be even numbered.

From SEPTA's perspective, there's nothing wrong with this. Trains traveling the system in the Market East-30th St. (i.e. ex-PRR) direction are southbound trains, regardless of which way the tracks point. Northbound trains run 30th-Market East. While it may not agree with how a normal railroad would run, it makes perfect sense for SEPTA, since there aren't any trains that don't run through the tunnel, and therefore all trains fit the system.