R3 "Wawa" Questions

Does anyone know when the Wawa service should start? (2007, 2008, 2010?, later?)

Will it skip the old Glen Riddle and Lenni stops?

Will Septa add additional Express Trains?

later......much later

I've heard all kinds of rumors about service being resumed to Wawa. I even heard that SEPTA was planning on opening a storage yard facility there, and closing Media yard. One whopper of a rumor! I know! I'll believe it when I see it.

2015, I would guess, considering how long it's taking to do the Market Street El, which is only two miles long.

The engineering contract was awarded in June 2005 to URS Corporation, which is doing surveying now, according to the 12/2005 capital project update from SEPTA.

The engineering contract was awarded in June 2005 to URS Corporation

More porkful spending on the part of SEPTA. Someone down there at 1234 must love giving out contracts for studies. If this doesn't turn into rail service then I think its pretty obvious that we've been had.

jfrey40535 wrote:

The engineering contract was awarded in June 2005 to URS Corporation

More porkful spending on the part of SEPTA. Someone down there at 1234 must love giving out contracts for studies. If this doesn't turn into rail service then I think its pretty obvious that we've been had.

amen, stop surveying and pushing papers and lay some track

SEPTA will be building the line with public money. This means they cannot do ANYTHING until just about every public agency in at the local, state, and federal level is satisfied that the project will not have deleterious side effects. Yes it is frustrating, and yes SEPTA has a tendancy to plan in excess, but at least they're doing something. It's much better for them to sit down and at least try to work out the potential problems beforehand rather than start laying tracks, stringing catenary and then realize that they've somehow screwed it up. You'd be even more critical of them in that case.

Just be patient, I know it's frustrating, but with any luck the management will change, SEPTA will recieve greater political support in Harrisburg and some of these plans will bear some fruit. It doesn't really merit discussion if we take the pessimistic view, since should the opposite happen there's a good chance SEPTA won't be around to see these plans through. And that of course means more money being spent by yet another agency to study those same things.

The expansion to Wawa is going to bring nothing but postive results. The Wawa station will be right at Route 1, thereby serving a great number of people as far as the state of Delaware that do not have rail service. Hopefully when it is seen how successful the R3 expansion is, they will finally restore all the way to West Chester. If only we could get this to happen for Newtown and Quakertown.

jfrey40535 wrote:More porkful spending on the part of SEPTA. Someone down there at 1234 must love giving out contracts for studies. If this doesn't turn into rail service then I think its pretty obvious that we've been had.

Allen D. Biehler, PE, Chairman
Pennsylvania Transportation Funding & Reform Commission
c/o PennDOT
400 North St.
Harrisburg PA 17120

Write or fax your state legislators too.

nittany4 wrote:

jfrey40535 wrote:

The engineering contract was awarded in June 2005 to URS Corporation

More porkful spending on the part of SEPTA. Someone down there at 1234 must love giving out contracts for studies. If this doesn't turn into rail service then I think its pretty obvious that we've been had.

amen, stop surveying and pushing papers and lay some track

Can't lay anything without environmental studies, engineering design studies, planning studies...the FTA and FRA mandate a slew of studies before most types of rail projects can even begin.

In a few words, it just ain't that simple as 'laying some track'. Wish it was.

jb9152 wrote:Can't lay anything without environmental studies, engineering design studies, planning studies...the FTA and FRA mandate a slew of studies before most types of rail projects can even begin.

In a few words, it just ain't that simple as 'laying some track'. Wish it was.

Well in this case, it pretty much could be (though you'd have to have a lawyer go over the relevant federal regulations, just to make sure).

It's an existing right of way and existing track on which passenger service is nominally suspended rather than abandoned, so a big environmental impact study or the like wouldn't be necessary unless you want to pay for it using a federal grant, in which case there are going to be strings attached to the money. To get a federal 'New Starts' grant, you not only have to complete the mandated alternatives analysis, but you also have to develop solid enough ridership projections to compete for the funds. Procedures are streamlined somewhat if the net cost of the project is below a certain threshold ($75 million, IIRC), and the proposed federal share is below another threshold ($25 million, IIRC).

If SEPTA were to do it with their own money or with just state funds, it could more or less be a matter of fixing up the tracks and signals and rebuilding stations (which subprojects may have some environmental or paperwork requirements).

jb9152 wrote:

nittany4 wrote:

jfrey40535 wrote:

The engineering contract was awarded in June 2005 to URS Corporation

More porkful spending on the part of SEPTA. Someone down there at 1234 must love giving out contracts for studies. If this doesn't turn into rail service then I think its pretty obvious that we've been had.

amen, stop surveying and pushing papers and lay some track

Can't lay anything without environmental studies, engineering design studies, planning studies...the FTA and FRA mandate a slew of studies before most types of rail projects can even begin.

In a few words, it just ain't that simple as 'laying some track'. Wish it was.

my bad, i'll remember to post only literal things from now on

nittany4 wrote:my bad, i'll remember to post only literal things from now on

That wasn't intended to bust on you--it was to make the point that this does not have to be (and AFAIK isn't) as complicated as the New Starts proposals.

About the other stations, the project only includes building one new station at Wawa. The other former stations aren't mentioned in the budget.

I'm not sure what you mean by adding express trains. I would guess they woudl handle the additional riders by adding cars as necessary.

It has been mentioned in another post that trains DO already operate on the line (Glen Mills Ballast train), so there wouldn't be a terribly large amount of work. But there are no passing sidings, and the train station at the Williams Free School is full of asbestoes. The 'station' at Glen Riddle is nothing more than a low level platform with an overpass that could pass for shelter.