Problems At Plymouth Diamond

Well, here again is another problem reguarding the Plymouth Diamond, in Plymouth, MI. I was out driving the other night, and came through the city of Plymouth. Well, ahead of me, there were the gates going down, so I got excited... Well, I sat there turned off the car, because all of the drags, go to the 15 mph speed limit through the stretch. Then, the gates went back up, so, As I crossed, I noticed the HCLX lead power train sitting on track 3, the engineer was blowing his horn, moving about 5 mph toward the crossing, then I looked at the signals, THEY WERE RED....

Why, must the engineer sit there and blow his horn (Crossing Approach Signal), and yet, he has the RED for going south? Also, I was in Plymouth all day, the only drag before him was the 5 car local for the Paper plant 2 miles south, and that was 2 hours before the incident....

can someone clarify?

Well, young James, the FRA has recently decided that the horn MUST be blown, a prescribed distance/time from the crossing, regardless of speed. Did you hear the train on the radio? Did the DS give him authority to proceed past the Stop indication? As an idle passerby, with NO railroad experience, of your own, I wouldn't try too hard, to wonder why things aren't going, as you imagine they should. The crossing must be blown for, for a prescribed amount of time, from a prescribed distance. That's the final ruling, of horn and whistle rules, according to the FRA. Regards
Now that I have clarified that, will you clarify this? What on earth, is a crossing approach signal??????????????

Sorry, I was in a haze yesterday. I did have the old trusty scanner with me, but, as far as I now, the DS didn't give permission, to pass the red. he still kept coming though.

Signal meaning horn blowing, the 2 long, 1 short , and another long..... Unless they have changed it....

Without seeing the signal layout, it is hard to say.

What you SEE as a red signal may not in fact be the signal for that track. That is where "knowing the physical characteristics" comes in...signals are frequently confusing to a layman. Other possibilities: The signals could be OOS; the crew could have gotten an EC-1 at the terminal ordering the train to ignore signals at that interlocking; it's even possible (although against the rules) that the crew could have called the dispatcher by cellphone and gotten permission past. Or the signal could be controlled by another railroad or another dispatcher on another channel (in some places Conrail radio channels are still used and they've even introduced new ones).

Horn codes: Two longs, a short, and a long is the ONLY signal CSX authorizes today. Conrail's elaborate coding of horn signals ins deader than NORAC.

CR> Yes, that is true, I was maybe even expecting him to stop. It happened again last night, so I pulled into a nearby parking lot, and he crept,a nd I MEAN CREPT over the crossing, less than 5 mph, atleast, and went past the signals, as soon as he did it, I heard the Prime Mover Kick into a higher gear, and by the time the last car was over the crossing, he was going fast, more than the 15 mph regulation....

Here are some photo links for u CR:

http://members.aol.com/jsundin357/jkimg1.html -- Farmer Street, Where the train the other night was crawling.....

http://members.aol.com/jsundin357/r334.html -- In the Front you can see the Crossing where I was talking about....

Thats about all ths pics I can find, that would help.....

As a engineer and conductor on this line for the past 6 years, there are many reasons. Fist what time of the night was it. Also what direction did was it heading. Also as you say sitting on three track, as we have no three track except in the yard, I am not shure where you are refering to. Just to help clear things up, as you may already know, looking at your first photo, (the one with the red over red on the dawarf (sorry spelling in by no means my strong suit) that is Farmer St.

Looking north from Farmer St., all the way to the right (track curving off to the right) is the Toledo Wye, then the main, and all the way to the left, is the Long Lead, and in the distance off to the left is the Grand Rapids Wye. Looking to the south, on the left is the main and the Long Lead. The next road to the south, is Main St., and beyond that is where the Plymouth Siding, comes off the main to the left, and the Long Lead comes back into the main, from the right.

First as GOLDEN-ARM said, the FRA now says you have to blow the horn, for X amount of time. My best guess, as knowing the tetory, is they had permisson past the stop, to either go back and get the rest of the train, or the signals were in Code Failure, or mabey couldent get a signal to come up, and they were talked by. Every early morning, Q392, comes north from Toledo, and has to make a set off at the north yard. In order to do this the crew leaves the train in the siding, makes a cut on there set off, pull north into the yard. In order to get back to the train, they have to stop, (usually between Farmer and Main St. and get permisson past, back to the train.

Also the speed in the wyes are 10MPH and on the main is 30.
If you want to shoot me your e-mail, I can explain more stuff in detail better. You can get ahold of me at [email protected]

OK, The train was headed south, at about 9 PM... medium sized, abott 30 cars, she was mixed, with a leased on the Header. She was North of Main St. the night of the incidents, headed south. As far as i know, Plymouth, is gettign pretty mad at CSX because of all the switching moves u guys make CSXT 700. They want to build a bridge at the Main St. crossing, and remove it. Now I also know, after main stree, does it not go down to 1 track for a few feet, and then it gets back to 2 for the curve at Lilley, and then is double till Hix, when u have that single stretch for Newburgh Yard.

Given the more detailed info, I would have to guess they problly had permmison past the stop, from the dispatcher. I wish I would have seen this sooner after it happened as I could have done a trace. As far as what train, I cant figure, as there is nothing sceduled, around this time, must have been somthing running late, or early. My guess would be a late Q216, or Q305. I wasent shure if by 3 main if you ment the Toledo Wye. Heck down in Walbridge, we have one track that has three diffrent names depending on the crew/yardmaster. We all just look at each other and "guess" what track they are talking about.

Why in the world would anybody get mad at a railroad for operating on there tracks that have probably been there for over 125 years or so??????????????

125 years? More like at least 80.... detroit is kinda in a place when it come to rail, we are on a peninsula, and you see bridges and speed limits (except near the border) everywhere.....

Engineer James wrote:Sorry, I was in a haze yesterday. I did have the old trusty scanner with me, but, as far as I now, the DS didn't give permission, to pass the red. he still kept coming though.

Signal meaning horn blowing, the 2 long, 1 short , and another long..... Unless they have changed it....

If he in fact passed the Absolute Stop signal....he either had the Dipatchers authority to pass the signal or the crew is now on the street looking for other employment.

Well, poor crew....