Private Rail Cars: Resources, Operations, & Discussion

CrazyNip,

The private car you saw parked at Tampa Union Station was former L&N office car OHIO RIVER which is now the business car of the Morristown & Erie Railway. It headed home, rearmost properly pointed, on Amtrak # 90 of 4/17.

CarterB wrote:Does Amtrak charge a per mile charge for any type of PV, or are there other factors that figure in? Will Amtrak haul a PV to a mid-point station or must it be end point to end point?

The basic mileage rate in Amtrak's private car tariff is $1.15 per mile. There are additional Amtrak charges for terminal switching and parking. The cost of operating a given trip may be substantial, but the truly hefty cost is the investment required to achieve a nice car that meets all FRA & Amtrak requirements.


A private car trip does not have to be operated terminal to terminal for a given train. Amtrak will allow a PV to be switched in/out of a consist at certain stations on certain routes.

$100.00 will not make a difference....as a matter of fact $1000 would not make a difference.

Walk up visitors are not welcome for several reasons:

1. Liability of having them around the property

2. The potential of theft of material

3. Disruption of the production Schedule


We have opened the terminal for several railfan organizations including several NRHS chapters and the PRRTHS at their convention last year under very controled circumstances. We are not a tourist attraction, and we intend to have the facility remain that way!

Guests are welcome by invitation only solely at our discretion.

We will accommodate members of the Warrior Ridge Club who ride on the Warrior Ridge on trips that we sponsor (not trips run by others using our equipment) on a periodic basis.

Frankly the suggestion that $100 would buy your way in is a cheap shot at best.

A per mile rate for a PV is probably a heckuva lot better than the historic method of pricing PV movements:

Eighteen (18) FIRST CLASS FARES, as determined by the tariff rate.

That is just the movement rate. Rental of the PV from whoever was a different cost, and was a per diem rate.

Can a PV car be set out at Glenwood Springs, CO? and can it be turned there?

In a word,

Contact AAPRCO and/or the Union Pacific Railroad...

AAPRCO might know because, as the association of PV owners, they have an idea of where things can happen.

UP would know because it's their railroad (nee SP, nee D&RGW).

John

Today Amtrak published a revised tariff for private cars, effective June 1, 2004.

The basic mileage rate increases from $1.15 per mile to $1.75 per mile. There are adjustments to other fees and charges.

Passengers chartering private cars and/or riding "public" trips on private cars should expect to pay more for the experience, but the net increase will be going to Amtrak rather than the car owner.

In return for the increased revenue, will Amtrak provide car owners with improved access and better service? That remains to be seen .....

Today on the Fox News Channel I saw a Chartered Amtrak Engine with private coaches leaving FL for Canada on a perscription drug run for seniors. How much would the chartering of a train for that distance cost an organizer? Also, is it common for private groups to go charter Amtrak for specials?

In the RxExpress thread, jhdeasy mentions that to charter 2 private cars from Miami to Toronto cost $33,000 one way. If you click on his profile you get to his website. He might be able to give you some idea of the costs involved.

We (Dominion Rail Voyages plus Morristown & Erie Railway) gave the client a quote of $33,000 for using 2 six bedroom lounge cars (MOUNT VERNON and ALDER FALLS), coupled lounge end to lounge end, for the MIA - NYP - TWO trip. That included deadheading from NYP to MIA before the trip and deadheading from TWO to NYP after the trip.

The client decided to pay several thousand dollars more to use 2 cars (coach/lounge MOHAVE and full sleeper PACIFIC UNION) from the midwest. I think the deadheading mileage expense was greater for these 2 cars. However, it gave the client the car types that they really wanted - a full sleeper plus another car that was all dining/lounge space. The aesthetic side benefit was they got two Budd built cars, one x-UP and one x-ATSF, whose exterior appearance (fluting pattern, trucks, etc) matched almost perfectly.

========================

Pricing a private car charter is not all that complicated.

First, add all of the direct costs associated with the trip:

TRANSPORTATION (all carriers)
switching
mileage
parking
sewage dumping (if applicable)
extra engine charge (if applicable)

CREW
chef
attendant(s)
crew transportation between home and trip point of origin/termination

FOOD & BEVERAGE
cost of all food, beverages and associated supplies.

CLEANUP
cost of cleaning car before the trip (OR) cost of cleaning car after the trip.
laundry (bed linens, table linens, towels, washcloths, etc.)

MISCELLANEOUS
diesel generator fuel consumed
fresh flowers
other extras
any special requests by client

After you have added all of the above to compute a total cost, you then add a daily lease fee to obtain the client's total cost of the charter. The daily lease fee covers the car owner's General & Administrative expenses and his (return on investment) profit. The daily lease fee can vary day by day. For example, we use a different lease fee for:

client occupied day, moving
client occupied day, parked
deadhead day, moving
deadhead day, parked

Not complicated, but not inexpensive

Mr Norman: These may not be cars of the "Beebe and Clegg" quality, but the price quote means but few can afford them!

John

Here is another perspective on the charter client's cost.

Let's say they paid $35,000 to charter the 2 cars one way from MIA to TWO.

The sleeper has 22 beds; 2 beds are for the crew of the private cars and the other 20 beds are for the seniors buying medications and the trip sponsors.

That comes to $1750 per person for the 20 "guests." That covers their transportation from MIA to TWO and their food & drink while onboard the cars. Clearly that number is significantly more than the cost of a Viewliner sleeper from MIA to NYP plus a business class seat from NYP to TWO.

Since Amtrak does not allow occupied parking of private cars at NYP Pennsylvania Station or Sunnyside Yard, they had to detrain when the Silver Meteor arrived at NYP and spend the night in a hotel prior to next morning's departure on The Maple Leaf. That would be extra expenses for lodging food and beverages at New York which are not included in the private car charter.

For $1,750 per head, the organizers also get to bring media and politicians along for a short ride, to hear their message and endorse/spread their message; they ride for "free" in the lounge car from station A to station B, and they are responsible for finding a way home at their own expense.

Mr Deasy,

You give an excellent business case for the use of PV in occasional service. That has been a traditional role of PV, be they the "Roald Amundsens and Ferdinand Magellans" holding the marker lights on some limited, or 8 section/buffet/lounge cars (also available in the Pullman era for charter).

In our era, the equivalent is 10-6s and 48 seaters that are in superb condition, have been lovingly (and expensively) maintained, and are available.

Bringing all this back to Amtrak, I think we've hit a niche market it cannot support: Significant charter movements! Lest we forget, the railroads and Pullman, in the 1st half of the 20th Century, obtained a fair portion of their business from charter movements, where the train was also available to be the hotel.

John Perkowski

I found an interesting little bit of information in the Newberry Library files on Pullman. Even as late as 1968, 21.47% of Pullman's service was from "seasonal, extra, and special services". I wanted to get to the balance sheets from the last days of Pullman so I ordered some reference material from a meeting with the railroads in Boca Raton. Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of the talk was concerned with labor severance payments and the orderly withdrawal of Pullman not the cost to operate the service or changes that could occur.

I am just curious. Is the current first car tariff $1.75/mile without the addition of a new locomotive? What is the second car in the same movement charged?

VPayne wrote:I am just curious. Is the current first car tariff $1.75/mile without the addition of a new locomotive? What is the second car in the same movement charged?

Yes. Amtrak's June 1, 2004 private car tariff is $1.75 per mile for the first car. Additional cars in the movement are $1.35 per mile per car. There is no discounted mileage rate for deadheading cars. If an additional locomotive is required, additional locomotive charge is $2.50 per mile. No taxes are added to these Amtrak charges.

Via Rail Canada is $3.00 Canadian per mile per car. No discount for multi-car movements. Deadheading cars are $2.00 Canadian per mile per car. If an additional locomotive is required, car owner will pay all incremental costs. Various taxes are added to these Via Rail Canada charges.