• Potential PAR/PAS Traffic Growth

  • Pan Am Southern (webssite: https://panamsouthern.com ) is jointly-owned by CSX and Norfolk Southern, but operated by Genesee & Wyoming subsidiary Pittsburg & Shawmut dba Berkshire and Eastern,
Pan Am Southern (webssite: https://panamsouthern.com ) is jointly-owned by CSX and Norfolk Southern, but operated by Genesee & Wyoming subsidiary Pittsburg & Shawmut dba Berkshire and Eastern,

Moderator: MEC407

  by BlueFlag
Androscoggin mill sale is complete. New owners say they they will tear down much of it, but the paper-making area is seen as useful site for new industries.
The company has held early conversations with a few groups about the future of the site .. they envision manufacturing companies eventually moving on to the property, with a particular focus on the wood products industry. [A company partner] expects it take up to two years before the site is ready for new businesses.
https://www.mainepublic.org/business-an ... oggin-mill
  by Gilbert B Norman
I must wonder what could be done to attract industries that can use railroad transportation.
  by S1f3432
Attracting any kind of manufacturing industry to Maine has a number of hurdles to overcome. To start, manufacturing isn't popular with a certain segment of the population, particularly new arrivals who view the place as a pristine playground and vacation land. Add strict environmental regulation and permitting, proximity to supplies, distance to markets, taxation.... A biggie is the cost of energy with electricity prices quite high. The large paper mills in the state once owned a lot of their own power generation but as ownership passed from local control to venture capitalists the power dams, biomass plants, and forest lands were all sold off to other interest leaving bare bones operations needing to buy all their supplies at market rates considerably higher than that of the the old integrated mills. There's a reason a lot of the timber in northern Maine gets hauled to Quebec for processing then shipped back to the Sates as finished product.
  by Gilbert B Norman
Mr. S1F, I think it safe assumption, "that darned cat" knew all of the above before picking up the pieces of Timmy's wrecked 1:1 Lionel, beyond where passenger train agencies took public funds to have it FRA Class 4.

Our previous discussion established that the acquisition was not all about maritime traffic, although if it were to develop, fine.

I'd further like to think it was not about garbage and spring water.

So using your reasoning as a base, why did Chessie want it?
  by Safetee
Because they didn't want anyone else to get it.
  by QB 52.32
Gilbert B Norman wrote:Our previous discussion established that the acquisition was not all about maritime traffic, although if it were to develop, fine.

I'd further like to think it was not about garbage and spring water.
Among the variety & mix of potential benefits that gets to why Chessie wants to fix Timmy's 1:1, including keeping others away, working around MA passenger rail investment, improving its contribution to her fancy feast through lowered costs; longer hauls; and less sharing, international containers, refinery products, additional wood & paper products, more propane, and "urban ore" waste, perhaps that 11 million tons of lithium deposited in Maine's hills is one such shiny object that has her attention?
  by NHV 669
I wouldn't hold my breath on the idea of mining said lithium regarding the state's position on it...
  by Gilbert B Norman
Mr. QB, you have certainly established in a very succinct manner, why that darned cat could want that excuse of a railroad named for a once proud but fallen flag of an airline.

"She ain't dumb, and amongst domesticated animals, she is far smarter than her canine companions; her "love" is hardly unconditional as I hold is the case with her "just maybe from time to time companions".

Now that the Commonwealth of Tax seems to be on a kick to have a passenger train operating over any rail route of consequence (will there even be a Flying Yankee and The Berkshire at least as far as Canaan?) that could be a "double edge sword". OK, The Commonwealth is all set to extract from the people's pockets what is needed to operate passenger trains (ideally FRA Class 4, but I guess Class 3 will do), what kind of restrictions; weight, hours, velocity, will be placed on the movement of her traffic?

Thoughts, Mr. QB; anyone?
  by jwhite07
Unless CSX thinks they are influential enough to change Maine's very strict laws regarding mining (they're not), that's 11 million tons of unobtanium in them thar hills. The mine in question is also much closer to SL&A/G&W rails than CSX.
  by QB 52.32
Regarding considering both lithium and MA passenger rail within the mix, CSX's move is strategic with a planning horizon out 25 years & beyond.

Lithium is a strategic mineral within a strategic supply chain that she's moving on, so as to Chessie maybe "holding her breadth" but not all the cards, Maine's position appears to have the potential for allowing it to come to fruition over the long run and with participation preferably direct, also available via interchange with G&W.

In terms of MA passenger rail, it's the strategic political $2-3 billion commitment along her ex-Boston & Albany with speed & density impact highest to lowest from Boston heading west to Framingham, then Worcester, then Springfield and then on out to Albany, and with it re-/development to help meet housing supply needs, that has her meowing that she'll be using her acquisition to take pressure off the transportation networks around Boston.
  by Gilbert B Norman
Mr. QB, even if Chessie no longer "purrs" in a Pullman over the C&O. she purrs away at 500 Water, and she has nine lives!!!

Now so far as the lithium, it certainly is a commodity that lends itself to railroad transportation. Now at present, there appears to be customer resistance to EV's, but I think that as the charging issues diminish with more stations around so will that resistance (I've driven one, a rental Model Y, once over two days and 75 miles. It "was fun" and I didn't have to worry about those little annoyances such as where to charge it, and I'm sure that it didn't have a radio can be surmounted with a phone). Assuming we don't become buddy buddy with Mr. Xi, the pressure will be on Maine to "relax".

Now finally again on the passenger train expansion plans, the concern our furry friend should have would what kind of operational restrictions the Commonwealth, after paying to fix up lines such as the B&A, would be placing upon her? After all, Amtrak imposes restrictions as to time and weight upon any road operating freight on the Corridor.
  by QB 52.32
Beyond only the operational restrictions, Mr. Norman, our "furry feline" concerns herself with strategic pressures on her facilities, as well as those on her customers' facilities, and the whole ball of wax as to how she might serve within the marketplace, from housing & associated re-/development not only specifically derived from those passenger rail investments, but also more broadly, including political pressure.

Also, lest we forget in terms of restrictions, she also did allow conditioning for her acquisition on the portions of the ex-B&A she owns frozen at an operation represented within her STB application when it comes to who might have to pay for capital cost requirements within long-run potential amid this strategic passenger rail expansion.

Following up on the lithium deposit's $1.5 billion value and amongst Chessie's potential mix of benefits, important to spell out that within the strategic supply chain, perhaps across the potential it might not go only to extraction, but also processing or related manufacturing within Maine potentially allowing this to come to fruition over the long run.
  by Gilbert B Norman
A bit off topic, Mr. QB, but are we certain that Chessie is a girl?

This reminds me of how a grade school friend's family had a cat named Conan The Conqueror - well until one day, about six furry "balls" appeared. Suddenly, a particular "--or" became "ess" :wink:

But returning to topic, you hold that her acquisition was in part conditioned upon her providing for the expansion of passenger service - at least within the Commonwealth.
  by QB 52.32
Yes, Mr. Norman, she set forth conditions with Amtrak for regional service on her owned portions of the ex-B&A within both the Commonwealth's $2-3 billion political passenger rail project commitment and the acquisition, as well as pointing out that her use of the Barbers gateway will help take pressure off the transportation networks around Boston.

Chessie is surely a girl, mated with Peake to have littered Nip & Tuck. Like the Conqueror-turned-ess, I, too, have a tale involving an Ivan-turned-essa! Oh, those pesky cats. :wink:
  by S1f3432
There are two proposed mine projects in Maine that have been slowly working their way through the regulatory process, the Lithium Mine in northern Oxford County and the Bald Mountain copper mine west of Ashland in Aroostook County. The latter is on Irving owned land and discovered on the 1970's. Maine passed a highly restrictive mining law in 1991 after ME DEP negotiated the closure of the Kerr-American zinc and copper mine in Hancock County. Remediation in 2010 had cost approaching nine million dollars and several other expensive cleanups later, including the ongoing IMC/Sobin mess at Orrington has made state government and the environmental lobby wary of supposed economic development that the State is going to be left cleaning up after the financial benefits and the companies that profited from them have dried up and blown away.
  • 1
  • 18
  • 19
  • 20
  • 21
  • 22