High Hoods. Why?

I have a stupid question for NS N&W/SOU fans. I've lost sleep for a long time trying to figure this out on my own without breaking down and asking. What is the purpose for NS and its predecessors desire to use high hood locomotives? I mean I just can't figure it out.

Aside from possibly giving more room for the toilet facilities on some of the EMD locos, I see absolutely no benefit and decreased visibility. NS fans, please open my eyes and make me understand. Thanks.

It was also done so that there would be more collision protection for the crew as the long hood was set up as front in most cases. Some engines also had dual control stands so that they could operate either way "easily" despite only being able to look out those small windows. If I remember correctly they stopped buying high-hoods before the merger.

I just saw a GP60 w/ low short hood but it either had dual control or long-hood forward. This was at Hegewisch by the South Shore station.

it was done because the southern and N&W were ignorant and stubborn...

I agree with crazy nip on this one, totally. In addition to the long hood
forward, NS locomotives were not equipped with proper toilet facilities.
The toilet had a urinal for no. 1 but no.2 required that you put a plastic
bag over a frame do your thing, then tie it up, sign your name to it and
leave it on the engine. Stores have it that various crews would throw
these plastic bags full of s--t off in people's back yards, something that
the railroad took a dim view of. NS locomotives had the worst seats in
the industry and after a 300 mile trip sitting in one of them, we would get
off with sore arms, backs and just plain feeling rotten.
I understand that improvements are finally being made, seats are better,
toilets now are up to industry standards and an engineer now usually sits
on the short end.
I don't know about now but a few years ago on the Norfolk Southern
labor - management meant you labor, we manage.
I am thankful that I never had to work for them.
Noel Weaver

why not ?

I believe The Southern Railway had a number of fatal collisions with loaded tractor trailers at unprotected grade crossings in the early 60's. The trucks would be carrying logs and when struck the logs would roll over the operating cab of the lead locomotive and kill the train crew. This type of wreck would/could be survivable if the logs did'nt flatten the cab, so in a ultra rare act of compassion The Southern and the BLE opted for long hood out operation. Dual control stand equipped but mostly long hood out in log truck territory.

A lot of crews got into trouble or got hurt running these engines long hood.
They created more problems than they solved.
Noel Weaver

Having the dual controls made it feasible to run either direction without turning the unit, and having the long hood labeled as the "front" was a fairly effective deterrent to crews bitching when they had to run a dual control unit "backwards" (short hood leading).

Noel, I don't know about the Southern but I ran a lot of E-44's long hood out and never had any problem. I think an E-44 is about as long as a Southern SD what ever.You just had to be careful around complex interlockings like State and Harris in Harrisburg or Penn station, New York on the rare occasion you went in there with one. Those interlocking signals were all over the place on the Penn Central. So I would venture on a rather low speed, lighter density railroad like The Southern it might not have been too big of a problem in the final cost versus benefit analysis. I hired on the Penn Central in November of 1970 and recall those brand new GP-38 and GE U- boats set up to run long hood out. Mr. Moore came from The Southern and took over the Penn Central presidency, around that time, bringing that long hood out deal with him. Union complaints put an end to that. Nobody wanted to run side saddle from Jersey City to Potomac yard or Enola.

Zeke wrote:Noel, I don't know about the Southern but I ran a lot of E-44's long hood out and never had any problem. I think an E-44 is about as long as a Southern SD.

Check it out.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/285 ... piodrDfqLF

Well I don't run trains but it seems to me if I were and I looked out and
saw an impending collision with a log truck or worse a gasoline tanker,
Id sure rather have that long hood out front. Steam hoggers did it for
years.

STEAM ON
/--OOO-;-oo--oo-

Zeke, I don't mean to drift OT, but I'm surprised to learn E44s ever made it into NYP. Why would this have happened? Rescuing a brokken down GG1? Mail train service?

Noel Weaver wrote:I agree with crazy nip on this one, totally. In addition to the long hood
forward, NS locomotives were not equipped with proper toilet facilities.
The toilet had a urinal for no. 1 but no.2 required that you put a plastic
bag over a frame do your thing, then tie it up, sign your name to it and
leave it on the engine. Stores have it that various crews would throw
these plastic bags full of s--t off in people's back yards, something that
the railroad took a dim view of. NS locomotives had the worst seats in
the industry and after a 300 mile trip sitting in one of them, we would get
off with sore arms, backs and just plain feeling rotten.
I understand that improvements are finally being made, seats are better,
toilets now are up to industry standards and an engineer now usually sits
on the short end.
I don't know about now but a few years ago on the Norfolk Southern
labor - management meant you labor, we manage.
I am thankful that I never had to work for them.
Noel Weaver

I agree with you on all counts--NS has the worst engines as far as crew amenities go--awful seats, bare-bones interior options, that stupid old-style control stand, no fridge... just awful.

The continuation of long-hood forward operation pleases RR enthusiasts, but not crews. Visibility is reduced and as someone else said, it causes more problems than it solves.

Labor relations aren't much better now then then, and they love to fire people.

I'm glad I hired out with BNSF rather than NS, by far.

Yes, the movement director would grab anything available to pull off a rescue including an E-44 towing a train into New York Penn. Maybe we can get a discussion going in the Penn Central or PRR forum on this topic.