NY tunnel DEIS study sign in Newark Penn Station

NJTRailfan wrote:tom, sometime last year The Record did a cover story about the ST in their Sunday Edition on how logn it was taking and the Billion Dollars over budget. Granted that it's needed but the amt of money was too much esp for that $400,000 plus sculpture sitting inside. The money that was wasted because the ST wasn't completed on time and other things could've gone to the MOM or W Trenton and that would've been well underway.

Heck even minor projects like Boonton,Dover-PM Yard and NJCL electirifcation along with Mt Arlignton Station would've been well underway if it weren't for the shortsightedness of NJT and others invovled.

Well, speaking as someone who actually rides NJT (and almost never uses a car to go anyplace anymore) I can tell you that Secaucus saves me 1 hour every time I make the trip from New Brunswick to Rutherford. That may not mean anything to you, but the potential to get a once 2 hour trip down to occasionally a less that one hour trip (if my stars align) really does work for me. Say what you want, but that does a lot more for me and a LOT of other people than you give it credit for.

And speaking from someons who actually works at NJT, I don' t think I have ever come across someone who used the station and disliked the station and the concept. (and I do ask people - "how was Secaucus, how was your trip, connection, etc) Sure they might have had a bad experience with the faregates, or the "faregate inspectors (arrgh)" or missing a connection by seconds/minutes or have to go over to another track, but in a way, they are temperary inconviences, and not a permament thing.

The only people who aren't real thrilled are the people who have had their trips lengthed, who don't use the station. But whatever, they are just going to have to deal with it!!!

I think Secaucus would be HUGELY popular if NJT did a lot better advertising about it, send out mailers to lots of residents showing where they can go now, what its all about, travel ideas or coupons, but I don't think NJT really wants to do that, because the station will become hugely popular, and many times, there are no places to put any more people, especially into/out of NYP during rush hour. They don't wanna get caught with their pants down, like they did with the opening of Midtown Direct - Dover.

If you build it they will come, happened at the airport stop, started off slow, now one of the biggest stops on the system......the same thing will happen with Secaucus.

And the thing that surprises me is that there are always a handful of people there who are confused and don't know where to go, telling me that there are new riders all the time (upstairs, downstairs is not that complicated). Also, I have to say, I really thought that going up to go down was going to be a hassle, but let's face it, you have to do that to change tracks at almost any station (Newark Penn, Trenton, etc.)

Uh Ryanovv, Hate to tell you this pal but I DO ride NJT. I even live closer to the M&E line then you live near by any line.

Where in my postings did I say that ST was useless? I said that the amount of money that the project required because it went over budget could've gone to MOM and W Trenton. Remember that pre 9-11 it was supposed to be finsiehd by a certain date but it never was. 9-11 or no 9-11 the constrctuion still took too much time. Now I unsertand the delay in openign the ST but not on why it took even longer for the construction to be completed on the ST. With that amt of time I expected to see office,hotel and retail buildings being built around it.

Once again. I didn't condem the ST jsut the the fact that the project took longer and it went too far over budget.

Oh an Ryanov. Yes it does matter to me since AS A FREQUENT MIDTOWN DIRECT RIDER FROM DOVER the NYP bound train I would be riding on would have to stop at the ST to pick up passengers comming off the other lines.

Oh and I do ride the train into Hoboken to hang out with friends.

Looking forward on having these discusions with you yet again. Atleast you didn't pull a Jessie Jackson or an Al Sharpton and called me a racist just for expressing the 1st Amendment like we all do in this county.

NJT has only advertised the ST through various NYC based radio stations both AM and FM but not through the TV or in newspapers. If they have then I haven't seen the ads and I frequently read the Star Ledger and occasionally Daily Record and The Record.

NJTRailfan wrote:Once again. I didn't condem the ST jsut the the fact that the project took longer and it went too far over budget.

So does everything. I don't figure that it opening late made it more expensive either. I also doubt that the amount that it went over budget would be enough to pay for service on much of anything.

NJTRailfan wrote:Oh an Ryanov. Yes it does matter to me since AS A FREQUENT MIDTOWN DIRECT RIDER FROM DOVER the NYP bound train I would be riding on would have to stop at the ST to pick up passengers comming off the other lines.

OK, fair enough. I personally would like to think that I'm capable of taking a 5 minute hit on my commute to possible save others an hour and to give more options to the transit system. Once again, you support it but don't.

NJTRailfan wrote:Looking forward on having these discusions with you yet again. Atleast you didn't pull a Jessie Jackson or an Al Sharpton and called me a racist just for expressing the 1st Amendment like we all do in this county.

Well, this time you didn't say anything racist, did you?

Ryan, With the money and time the project went over by not including the 9-11 situation the buildings that would be on top and surrounding ST would've been well underway in their construction.

Oh and not once have I said a racist thing. Throwing that word at someone who disagrees with you cheapens one argument and then you have lost the debate. I happen to be anti PC and get straight to the point. Defamation of character can brign alot of unwanted litigation.

I remember these sayings quite well an I would wish NJT had the balls to say the following,

"If someone has to say these things it has to be me because no ones got the guts to say them!"

I can only please one person at a time. Today is not your day and tomorrow doesn't look good either!"

It is my understanding that hte Allied Corp had problems and that is why the costs for NJT and the state went so high - the state had to cover part of Allied's share, because tehy couldn't come up with the cash right then, and the state and NJT wasn't about to put the project on hold while they tried to come up with the cash.

Also, there were many design changes which contributed to some delays and extensions, the most significant being the new turnpike interchange. Apparently this project had to have many many stars come together adn align perfectly, and well, they didn't all come together in a great fashion (not surprising).

The project was put on hold and slowed down after 9/11 because of the tremendous increase in ridership between NYP and NWK with the loss of WTC PATH service. The station could have opened earlier, but NJT was coutning on the reopening of PATH to ease capacity problems on our trains, and the Secaucus people would replace those who went back to PATH. I never saw a real reduction of ridership with the opening of PATH, however, and only see more people riding the trains due to Secaucus.

NJT is quite fearful of the openings of new projects, after they were caught with their pants down with the opening of Midtown Direct Dover when 1000000 people rode the first day (im exagerating a little bit, but you get the point). Look at EWR. Very little advertising is done for it, now and when it opened....now its one of the biggest stops on the system in only 2 years, just as Secaucus will in a year or two

Jtgshu,

Do you come across folks transfering at Secaucus from the Bergen/Main/PV Lines to Newark Airport?

That seems to me to be one of the strongest intra State connections, connecting through Secaucus to Newark Airport for folks in Bergen, Pasaic, Orange and Rockland Counties .

Ive seen a few, not too many, but the numbers are growing, as people slowly find out exactly what everything is about and that the Airport stop really is that easy.

Oddly enough, one of the most numerous intrastate connections that I come across is from Trenton. I don't know if these people are going to Trenton itself or transferring to/from Septa. But there are a lot of people ive seen getting on in Trenton going to Salsbury Mills, Mahwah, Radburn, etc. About a month ago on an NEC weekend eastbound train I was working, there were something like 10 people of out Trenton station transfering at SEC to Hob Division points. (I also had to cut a disabled ticket from Trenton to I think it was Tuxedo on that train - that took me a few minutes to figure out!!!!)

But IMO, the largest point of travel from Secaucus on Newark Divisoin lines, is Newark Penn station (other than NYP - the most popular destination of SEC travlers).

Many of these intrastate travelers are absolutely thrilled with SEC, and have come out and told me this, as are many NJT employees who work in the Palace on the Passaic, Penn Plaza in Newark. Im seeing all these new faces with NJT badges, and I don't know who they are!!!! Its a little nerve wracking!!!