NY tunnel DEIS study sign in Newark Penn Station

I see the projects related sort of, because is NJT going to build new platforms in NYP or are they going to keep with the current tracks in NYP. If they build new platforms and concourse area, it would be nice if it were somehow integrated into the Farley post Office. It is my understanding that there is a significant amount of space behind the wall next to track one at NYP. This could be a potential area for additional platforms.

However, the way the current platforms and location of the post office is set up, especially wiht the addition of the NJT 7th ave concourse, that most NJT riders are not going to be using the Post Office, as the tracks that NJT uses mostly and exclusively 1 to 4 and the lower number tracks, lets just say up to 12 (end of 7th ave concourse) are situated too far east. (hell, 2 city blocks difference!!)

However, more than 1 train can fit on the middle tracks, so maybe it would be practical to have an Amtrak boarding on the west end of the station, with an NJT boarding on the east end, and able to get around the Amtrak using crossovers which would/could be "left handed" crossovers, similar to Amtrak empire service, as I would imagine the new tunnels would be built to the south of the Empire tunnel.

It should be interesting seeing how they are going to do this.......i have seen the "plans" and maps for the Farley post office, but I don't think ever with the new station and the new tunnels and platforms.....I should check out the ARC site again........

NJ Transit does not have to go with the same exact units as the LIRR's Dual modes, just something that is compatible so they could exit the East River tunnels and go to Sunnyside.

It does not matter if the third rail in the current Hudson tunnels are not operable, all they need to do is install third rail in the "new" tunnels from NY Penn to Secaucus.

Again the biggest part of the ARC plan is the "loop" for two reasons, first what are they going to do with 21 additional slots per hour. They are not going to merely increase the NEC and NJCL to Subway like frequencies, makes more sense to spread the slots around. And unless your going to string wire to Raritan, Suffern, Spring Valley etc the diesel Dual modes are the best cost efficient method.

The tunnels are not going to be built for atleast 12-15 years at the earliest, so there's plenty of time to plan and develop new and improved Next Generation Diesel Electric motors.

The Second reason for the "loop" is that it will enable the MTA to partner in the plan if they wish as an alternative route for their West of the Hudson lines to access NY Penn, if the Tappan Zee plan does not include rail.

No new third-rail would go into new tunnels under the Hudson. Catenary is extant, so that would be the mode of electrification used. Catenary dual-modes could be built, but that takes an effort on NJT's part...and in the past, they have expressed a desire to rather go with full electrification of the passenger rail system instead.

Also, I said that the third-rail through the current North River tunnels is gone, not in place and inoperable, having been removed last fall IIRC.

Could you elaborate on "Next Generation" diesel-electrics? Also, "motors" is a term used exclusively for straight-electric locomotives IIRC.

[img]http://www.accesstotheregionscore.com/i ... usLoop.gif[/img]

Nice work of fiction. That loop is never going to happen.

Those plans aren't a complete work of fiction. Those tracks leading to the tunnel and the tunnel itself will happen but thsoe loop tracks are a waste of time and money.

That pretty much renders the ST useless if they go through with those loop tracks. They should've done that rather then build the ST which took too long to get done and over a billion over budget.

Well, ST does make it easier for crazy people like me to make inter-division trips.

ST which took too long to get done and over a billion over budget.

Again with this Billion Dollar figure?..

The final cost for Secaucus Transfer project is $600 Million, which is $200 Million over the orginal $400 Million Dollar estimate.

If the total cost was $600 Million, how on Earth can it be a "Billion" over budget?...

tom, sometime last year The Record did a cover story about the ST in their Sunday Edition on how logn it was taking and the Billion Dollars over budget. Granted that it's needed but the amt of money was too much esp for that $400,000 plus sculpture sitting inside. The money that was wasted because the ST wasn't completed on time and other things could've gone to the MOM or W Trenton and that would've been well underway.

Heck even minor projects like Boonton,Dover-PM Yard and NJCL electirifcation along with Mt Arlignton Station would've been well underway if it weren't for the shortsightedness of NJT and others invovled.

When I think of honest reporting, I think of the Record.....riiiiiigght

Anyway, Secaucus was not built shortsightedly. It was built quite the opposite, and that was one of the reasons it took so long. NJT employees received a video and information on Sec Xfer with a brief background about it and its operations. One of the biggest problems they had was building the station to be able to support the office buildings that might or might not get built around and or on top of the station building itself. The video states that tehre were numerous changes with the design of the buildings above, and that they had to continually redesign the station itself to account for these changes. Also, it states that somehow the Allied corp or whomever somehow managed to go broke, and was unable to finish financing their share at the time, so NJT and the state had to come in and pick the balance up so it could be finished in a timely fashion, instead of waiting for the company to get a new line of financing, or something like that (its been a while since I watched the video and read the propanganda associated with it)

There was also a very late in the game design change with the Main/Bergen/Pascack rerouting. Something happened, and they had to quickly scramble to reroute the trains to the current routing (maybe wetlands permits or endangered species or something, or maybe it had to do with the new interchange being built, I think that might be it, but I can't say for sure) and apparently the station has like a "ghost" platform or at least provisions for one, down below on the former ROW of the Main line (or which ever line was moved to the new junction west of the station) because the station was already built and designed when this change or whatever popped up.

Like I said, Its been a while since I read this crap, and im sure I gummed something up, but the explainations that NJT gave to us seemed to make sense (at least to me) as to the length of time, the changes and problems encountered.

The media in this state and region is very untrustworthy, and can manage to put a spin on anything. I remember seeing that 600million dollar number a couple of places, so I would tend to believe that more than the 1 billion dollar plus numbers that are thrown around......just like on the RiverLINE, the press is playing games with the numbers of riders and the costs of the building and operating of the line. They make it look worse than it is and stretch and bend the truth, to cause a shock effect adn to get you to buy a newspaper........this type of reporting has been going on for well over a hundred years......

OK, mistakes were made in the building of Secaucus. Like every government project it took too long to complete and cost too much money.

But, I can tell you that a substantial number of people get off at Secaucus from the 5:18 to Dover that I most frequently take. These people obviously find Secaucus a positive change. I have never talked to any of them so I do not know how they commuted before but as I have sat next to many of them they seem to be going to a diverse set of destinations. Obviously to them Secaucus is better than any alternatives.

Therefore I think that building Secaucus was worthwhile, even with the delays and cost overruns and the operational problems it has caused (which seem to be being worked out as I have noticed far fewer delays around Secaucus than when it opened).

Hopefully some day the second tunnel will be built, as well as extra platforms at NYP. Someday a loop track may even make Secaucus somewhat obsolete (though by that time there will probably be office buildings that will make Secucus a destination in its own right) but by that time Secucus will have had a decade of two of valuable service as a transfer station and will have well redeemed the investment.

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/200 ... secauc.htm

Secaucus transfer to open in December 2003

By Judy Rife
Times Herald-Record
[email protected]

Newark, N.J. – Since May, commuter Jim McKenna has been digesting the bad news: Secaucus won't open in December. And steeling himself against worse news: It won't open until December 2003.
Yesterday, NJ Transit made official what it had only hinted was possible in May. The $450 million Secaucus transfer, the much-touted link to midtown that has been rising in the Meadowlands since 1995, will open for the morning commute when PATH service to lower Manhattan is restored.
Which is "by winter 2003/2004, approximately." Some weekend service may start as early as September 2003.

Well, I guess they got the relief they wanted now. I just didn't get why NJT waited for the restoraration of the PATH station to open Secaucus. They could have opened Secaucus earlier. And the WTC PATH service would have done fine either way.

I remember reading somewhere that they waited for the WTC path station to open in hopes of getting people off the nec NY bound trains @ newark to switch to path. This was supposed to make room for people getting on who were transferring to midtown via secaucus.

korbermeister wrote:I remember reading somewhere that they waited for the WTC path station to open in hopes of getting people off the nec NY bound trains @ newark to switch to path. This was supposed to make room for people getting on who were transferring to midtown via secaucus.

OK, well that makes sense. Thanks!