"Dimples" and rods (poling pockets)

Back in the days of steam,all equipment had "dimples" on each front and rear corner.I remember that most engines had a rod hanging on
the side of the tender..Was this used to push a car into a tough spot ?
How was it retrived?
iI know that after WW2 the procedure was banned for safety reasons.

Those dimples were called poling pockets and were indeed used to push cars out of a siding if it faced the wrong way to retrieve a car.
The practice was dangerous and a lot of the hard wood poles broke and splintered in a explosive way maiming or killing the poor brakeman or conductor.
The practice was outlawed by ICC (predecesor to FRA) in late 40's

I don't think so. Can you show specific reference to ICC banning poling? If not, let's put a disclaimer rather than stating it as fact.

Some railroads may have banned the practice, it certainly fell into disuse...but as late as 1962, there were locomotives built with poling pockets. Why would that be IF it was banned in the 1940s?

BR&P wrote:I don't think so. Can you show specific reference to ICC banning poling? If not, let's put a disclaimer rather than stating it as fact.

Some railroads may have banned the practice, it certainly fell into disuse...but as late as 1962, there were locomotives built with poling pockets. Why would that be IF it was banned in the 1940s?

It was banned because of that, as I read some info couple years ago. But I dont know when that banned was created and by who...

That's my point - people hear things somewhere, some time ago, kinda think that's the case...then they post it here as a fact. Which helps perpetuate the concept, correct or not.

I'm willing to learn and if ICC did in fact ban poling, there should be specific orders and notices to that effect which are easy to quote. I don't doubt that some specific RAILROADS banned poling on their property, and it is obvious that industry-wide, this is no longer an accepted practice. But I have never heard of it being banned as a matter of law or federal regulation. There is nothing in the CFR that I am aware of. If someone can show a specific ICC order which banned poling I will certainly accept it - I'm just asking for proof.

Interesting topic! Moved to the Rolling Stock Forum since this topic is not specific to New York State.

-otto-

BR&P wrote:That's my point - people hear things somewhere, some time ago, kinda think that's the case...then they post it here as a fact. Which helps perpetuate the concept, correct or not.

I totally agree 100% I tell alot of people through personal PM's NOT to believe about 90% of what they read on this board-------to bad they they dont have a BS detector for some of these guys!!!!!!!!!

BR&P wrote:That's my point - people hear things somewhere, some time ago, kinda think that's the case...then they post it here as a fact. Which helps perpetuate the concept, correct or not.

I read that in Trains magazine if I remember correctly... It was back in the issues where THE Q and A sections. That's the fact, unless you are saying that editors or writers at Trains Mags are liars and BS like this coal-hauler said...


As I STATED BEFORE.... I only share the informations from what I heard from RAILROADERS or the literactures.... NOT FROM RAILFANS....

You can MARK my word about that..

I'm not saying TRAINS editors are liars, nor are they infallable either.

The "bible" for federal regulations for the railroad industry is the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). Title 49 governs transportation. It is divided into sections - part 213 gives track standards, part 229 is Locomotove Safety Standards, and so on - everything from proper radio procedure to not drinking on the job to how many bolts in a rail joint to - you name it.

I have never seen a prohibition there against poling cars. If it were outlawed by the government it would be there. If I'm missing it, tell me what section and part and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.

Again, certain RAILROADS may have banned poling - perhaps certain STATES. But I have never seen documented proof that the Feds have done so as claimed by DRN. He claims the ICC banned poling in the 1940's. However freight cars built in the mid 50's still had poling pockets. Check a picture of ONCT 418, an ALCO RS36 built in 1962 - it was built with poling pockets. Why would new equipment be built to perform a task supposedly outlawed 15 years before?

Again I'm willing to learn - if someone can show me that on a certain date the ICC issued order number __ which banned poling, fine. If that is not the case, then those who post things as fact are helping reinforce and repeat the misinformation.

Slightly OT, but not really. As late as 1998, I was on a crew that had to "pole" a car, using lumber off a nearby center-beam. An attempted "drop" failed to clear the switch, frogging us in. This was at the 5th Ward yard (Hardy st.) in Houston. We used a piece of rough cut wood, approx., 4X3 and about 8 feet long, to push the car back onto the lead. After wedging the wood, against the car, and into the side of the loco, a slow, steady shove resulted in moving the car, back to the lead. It's definately not practiced, but I can't recall it's being banned. Real poles had metal bands around them, to prevent the shattering, that occasionaly occured. Tapered ends, and very heavy, I've seen them around car shops, but never saw a real one being used, as intended. Older switchers sometimes still have the twin hooks, under the catwalk, where they used to be stored. Will read the CFR (again) and see if there's anything about poles. Kind of like brake clubs. Remember those? Regards.......

I think this may have come down to a rule by railroads... everyone knows the book of rules is written in blood- every rule is in there because someone died doing something the rule tells you not to. I don't know which railroads and when, but it could have been on an individual basis, and nothing handed down from the government. Since the practice fell out of favor and was no longer common, the dimples gradually disappeared from equipment...

-otto-

We have early GP30's with poling pockets on the BNSF. Of cours theyre GP39M's, V's and E's now. I dont recall seeing 35's with them. I think the 62 date theory holds water.

I recall a brakeman in the early '80s (that's the 1980s) trying to use an old rr tie as a pole -- in one of those drop-bys gone bad, somewhere near Troy (NY) yard. His finger got wedged in between the make-do "pole" and the car, very neatly (and painfully) severing the digit in question. I don't believe he subsequently thought it was worth it.

This locomotive was supposedly built in 1965 and has polling pockets.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=138500

There is a picture of B&H #11 and her crew poling at Bath (NY) on pg 103 of my copy of Keuka Lake Memories. The same photo can be seen on page 38 of Railroads You Can Model. It is the only picture I've ever seen of poling. Railroads You Can Model also said the practice was seldom-seen as of its printing 1976, so maybe poling was still acceptable at that point.

NOTE: the picture isn't dated, but I assume it was taken in the late '30s or '40s, as D-1 took over most freight duties from #11 on the B&H in 1949.