CR on the Southern Secondary

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:03 pm So with only 7.4 million dollars C&D is going to:

Clear all vegetation between Farmingdale and Freehold, and clear Lakewood to Lakehurst, buy brand new ties and replace the destroyed ones, pour new ballast down, put new rail down, put up crossing lights, buy all new spikes and tie plates, fix bridges and bring the Southern Secondary up to Class 1,

For 7.4 million dollars?

They might be lucky if the 7.4 million covers Farmingdale to Freehold alone, and the prices for ties and such? No doubt inflation has brought that up. Even if it’s only $5 more per tie that adds up.

I believe that the phase 1 grant is covering Freehold-Farmingdale alone/mostly.

@JohnFromJersey Yeah, but they are only doing 2.5 miles of track for that phase for the price of $4,818,000 dollars or thereabouts. That leaves another 2.5 or so miles between Farmingdale and Freehold and there’s still Lakewood to Lakehurst they gotta worry about. That part isn’t much better. There’s a big washout near Whitesville Rd, and again, lots of ties need replacement. Not to mention the areas where sand has replaced the ballast and the bridge under Route 70 which Conrail never fixed properly.

Oh and that reminds me, the bridges on the rest of the Southern that are completely falling apart? Only one is mentioned in the grant request, and that bridge needs more than a new deck!! The bridge next to it has no retaining walls!!

Baby steps. Get FIT - Southern reconnected, start hauling freight (revenue!), use income for further improvements. And as they still don't own the ROW, just trackage rights, pursue further grants. And I'm sure they studied what's needed for the above pretty carefully (engineering and cost studies).

And don't forget they are salvaging the rail they are replacing, as well as a couple of switches for phase 2 / future use.

I will grant that price increases due to inflation are putting this all in jeopardy, and / or they may have bitten off more than they can chew, but that's not their (D&D's) fault. All this may or may not happen but I suspect your outlook is a little too bleak.

Train is at Woodhaven. No crew in sight, engine is running.

I guess the train went back?

I have not heard the train since Bracdude relayed its last location, and I live relatively close to the tracks. I'm assuming it's still in Woodhaven or is slowly crawling back to Red Bank.

As for the grant, this whole fiasco shows that this line would be better run if it was 100% in private hands, instead of the state owning it, and contracting it out but not allowing anyone to make any major repairs to it, until the last possible second under their terms. If this line is state-owned, it is only fair that other railroad companies besides CR/CSX/NS are allowed to operate on it, especially if they intend to do their own repairs to it.

I know when other rail lines in NJ continued to be private in lieu of NJDOT "preserving" the ROW, they became rail trails, or were slowly sold off to other private entities. The Barnegat Branch comes to mind, much of it is a rail trail but much of its ROW is now houses and whatnot. The Southern has suffered under state ownership, in my opinion.

There was a short line in the 90's that wanted to reconnect Winslow-Woodmansie, but the state said no for some reason (link: https://imgur.com/a/Hn7xE35). If the state's goal of owning routes like the Southern is to preserve it for future use, why don't they let railroad companies with actual business plans for using said railroad do as they please? Especially if the companies put up their own money.

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:32 am

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:03 pm So with only 7.4 million dollars C&D is going to:

Clear all vegetation between Farmingdale and Freehold, and clear Lakewood to Lakehurst, buy brand new ties and replace the destroyed ones, pour new ballast down, put new rail down, put up crossing lights, buy all new spikes and tie plates, fix bridges and bring the Southern Secondary up to Class 1,

For 7.4 million dollars?

They might be lucky if the 7.4 million covers Farmingdale to Freehold alone, and the prices for ties and such? No doubt inflation has brought that up. Even if it’s only $5 more per tie that adds up.

I believe that the phase 1 grant is covering Freehold-Farmingdale alone/mostly.

They could if they weren't in NJ or NY, CA,MA,CT seeing a pattern. Most states can build a mile of rail from scratch for around 250k to 300k

Tanker1497 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:59 pm

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:32 am

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:03 pm So with only 7.4 million dollars C&D is going to:

Clear all vegetation between Farmingdale and Freehold, and clear Lakewood to Lakehurst, buy brand new ties and replace the destroyed ones, pour new ballast down, put new rail down, put up crossing lights, buy all new spikes and tie plates, fix bridges and bring the Southern Secondary up to Class 1,

For 7.4 million dollars?

They might be lucky if the 7.4 million covers Farmingdale to Freehold alone, and the prices for ties and such? No doubt inflation has brought that up. Even if it’s only $5 more per tie that adds up.

I believe that the phase 1 grant is covering Freehold-Farmingdale alone/mostly.

They could if they weren't in NJ or NY, CA,MA,CT seeing a pattern. Most states can build a mile of rail from scratch for around 250k to 300k

I wonder why this is the case. Obviously it's the ridiculous laws relating to zoning/property/etc. but I wonder why specifically they are here in Jersey (and the others you mentioned) and not seen in many other states.

There are plenty of other states that are just similar in terms of population density (and political spectrums) as us right? Something doesn't seem right.

@JohnFromJersey Something has been fishy about this whole thing from the get go. Also, I think somebody REALLY messed up here.

Why get a grant for a line that you need STB approval to work on BEFORE getting the approval? NJSL didn’t do that.

Train is still parked at Woodhaven. No crew, engine is running.

Oh, I dunno. Try this: Absent objection, getting an exemption notice is pretty much automatic. Getting the state grant is to say the least, fraught with peril. Without the grant (notice the grant implies nothing other than the money be spent for the intended purpose, with no penalty if it is not used) it would not be worth D&D's time effort and money to pick up the freight business.
Therefore, grant is highest priority, with no penalty if it is not used and no downside if it is not gotten. But taking over the Southern and the FIT without it would probably be financially devastating. Think of the money in ROW maintenance they would become liable for. After all, you're the one always telling us what rotten shape it's all in. They needed to know the grant money would be available in order to proceed.

Exactly; thank you Charles.

SA-31 is bringing the train back today, should be in or near Lakewood.

Train just came thur Farmingdale 610pm

Northbound through Shrewsbury at 8:40 in the pm.