Amtrak HHP-8 Discussion: Use, Reliability, Disposition

OK; let's see.

Apparently, Amtrak has taken the position that "MARC, if you want to run on our road, you will provide electric motive power for your trains" (and buy your power from us for which you can be sure we will gouge you). Therefore, MARC must accept that their PRR (Amtrak) trains will stay on the PRR, and they will lose the flexibility of having a set operating both over the PRR and the B&O.

I understand where Amtrak is coming from, but with MARC being a tenant over both roads, I think they have no choice but to accept those facts of life.

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:54 pm UPDATE: I have been informed that ANOTHER HHP8 has been spotted earlier today on the Springfield to New Haven Shuttle. I'm not sure which number yet. Details to follow.

I checked the Virtual Railfan archives on that day and saw no Hippos at SPG on scheduled shuttle runs that occurred before or around the times of your posting and did not see 66-7 or 56-8 trying to bring a Hippo into NHV.

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:31 am The HHPs are extremely problematic as we know. The central block of the HHP has been decommissioned but not removed. All components are still in the loco but stuff is bypassed/cut out I dont know how they were able to get them to function as a cab car yet but we shall see

AM: How exactly do you define the central block and how was it decommissioned?

WhartonAndNorthern wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:47 pm

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:54 pm UPDATE: I have been informed that ANOTHER HHP8 has been spotted earlier today on the Springfield to New Haven Shuttle. I'm not sure which number yet. Details to follow.

I checked the Virtual Railfan archives on that day and saw no Hippos at SPG on scheduled shuttle runs that occurred before or around the times of your posting and did not see 66-7 or 56-8 trying to bring a Hippo into NHV.

I am currently waiting for further info regarding the second hippo at NH. The person who told me said he didn't catch it, but someone else saw it. I will keep everyone here posted as soon as I receive more info.

Under the terms of the lease, Amtrak can't modify the HHP-8s in any significant way. Wouldn't removing the pantographs and parts of the engine block be in violation of the lease?

I'll be in New York in a few weeks. Perhaps I'll pop down to New Rochelle to try and see one.

A settlement was already reached between Amtrak and the lessor, I’m sure none of the modifications done to get them working as cab cars are significant enough to trigger another lawsuit… Removing a pantograph is not a big deal and I’m sure the central block has probably just been disconnected from providing any useful power and still remains in the unit.

8th Notch wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:33 pm A settlement was already reached between Amtrak and the lessor, I’m sure none of the modifications done to get them working as cab cars are significant enough to trigger another lawsuit… Removing a pantograph is not a big deal and I’m sure the central block has probably just been disconnected from providing any useful power and still remains in the unit.

Correct. The only argument I could see being made is if the use off the NEC significantly exposes the units to more at grade crossing strikes. I think that would be very weak.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:30 pm OK; let's see.

Apparently, Amtrak has taken the position that "MARC, if you want to run on our road, you will provide electric motive power for your trains" (and buy your power from us for which you can be sure we will gouge you). Therefore, MARC must accept that their PRR (Amtrak) trains will stay on the PRR, and they will lose the flexibility of having a set operating both over the PRR and the B&O.

I understand where Amtrak is coming from, but with MARC being a tenant over both roads, I think they have no choice but to accept those facts of life.

MARC would seem to be a good candidate for dual modes by that standard if they wanted to move the fleet around.

Because its not PM responsbility of whats running and working. The contract says the stuff has to be usable, maintained for operations. Dead HHPs with parts missing are not operational

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:46 am Because its not PM responsbility of whats running and working. The contract says the stuff has to be usable, maintained for operations. Dead HHPs with parts missing are not operational

Mr. Approach, your captioned quotation would suggest that the Lessor's (Altria/Philip Morris) terms require that these HHP-8 motors must be maintained "ready to go". That would mean to me that all the "periodics, i.e. inspections, must be performed and certified thereto.

For motors that haven't turned a revenue wheel in now three some years (save these "experiments" reported by Mr. Pennsy), that just seems a "little fetched".

Of course, during my eleven years in the industry, didn't I learn of a thing or two that astounded me?

Im sorry, but ive mentioned this here many times before. That is the terms of the contract. Even if they do not use the locos they MUST be service ready. THAT is why PM is so upset about them sitting at the shops gutted missing parts etc.

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:31 am All components are still in the loco but stuff is bypassed/cut out i dont know how they were able to get them to function as a cab car yet but we shall see

Im not sure how the HHPs software works but on the 64's, you just go into the TOD and put the loco in Cabcar mode.
pantograph stays down, and the loco only receives 480 from the consist. It basically becomes a NPCU. Not sure if the HHP has that capability but on a 64 is a matter of a few touches on a screen

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:30 pm OK; let's see.

Apparently, Amtrak has taken the position that "MARC, if you want to run on our road, you will provide electric motive power for your trains" (and buy your power from us for which you can be sure we will gouge you). Therefore, MARC must accept that their PRR (Amtrak) trains will stay on the PRR, and they will lose the flexibility of having a set operating both over the PRR and the B&O.

I understand where Amtrak is coming from, but with MARC being a tenant over both roads, I think they have no choice but to accept those facts of life.

MARC would be doing one or more of the following:

• Swapping engines on equipment, because they don't have enough equipment to do CSX-territory service separate from the Amtrak/PRR territory service.
• Buying dual-mode equipment to replace older diesel equipment. Remember, they got some GP39H-2's and 26 MP36PH-3C's. Even dropping the latter for dual-modes will work nicely.
• Converting the SC-44's they have into dual-mode.

This is all 10 years down the road, depending on how fast the replacement to the B&P goes.

To convert an HHP=8 to run off 480 and "cabcar" mode you have to remove the Pantograph handle to force KAUX2 and KAUX 1 to swap which provides 480 TL power to the local auxilaries. Ive had HHPs operate in pairs this way before, back to back using their white propulsion cable and 480 connected. I have no idea how well it would operate as an electric with the black MU cable provided HEP from another loco.

I won't be surprised if they're in a "testing" phase to see how it would work. This is how I would approach it -- light testing with some spare cars before some passengers.